Weighing wire and possible discrepancies - Let's Discuss

[rhgwynn]

And many of Leo's pickups failed because of corrosion. If you read Leo's patent on wax potting, it was done to stop moisture from getting into the windings. If you have air in the coil, that won't work very well. There is no disadvantage to vacuum potting. Don't just blindly do what Leo did.

Please name all the pickup makers that "flash pot" their pickups. You said "most pickup makers." I really doubt that. I think the majority of pickup makers keep the bobbin in long enough to get the wax all the way into the coil, and/or vacuum pot. If they aren't, then they are living under some kind of misconception that it sounds better if you don't. No one has proven that yet.

Didn't you get the memo on that?

I don't have a vacuum setup yet, but that's coming. But I do leave my bobbins in for 10 minutes, and after having cut some wire off a few I know the wax gets all the way in pretty well.

If you're volume isnt too high, try a brake bleeder pump; you can fit 3-4 singles into a jar of wax and use it to pump the air out. It works extremely well and takes about 15min.

-Rob

[kayakerca]

I think the majority of pickup makers keep the bobbin in long enough to get the wax all the way into the coil, and/or vacuum pot. If they aren't, then they are living under some kind of misconception that it sounds better if you don't. No one has proven that yet.

Didn't you get the memo on that?

I don't have a vacuum setup yet, but that's coming. But I do leave my bobbins in for 10 minutes, and after having cut some wire off a few I know the wax gets all the way in pretty well.

Get out your stopwatch! You can see the level of vacuum and duration of of vacuum potting for one SD p/u recipe from this video clip.

How to Make a Pickup Part 3 - YouTube

[David Schwab]

Oh yeah I saw that video. I'm going to build a proper wax/vacuum tank and use a small vacuum pump.

[Stratz]

I think the majority of pickup makers keep the bobbin in long enough to get the wax all the way into the coil, and/or vacuum pot. If they aren't, then they are living under some kind of misconception that it sounds better if you don't. No one has proven that yet.

If you cant hear a difference between a slightly microphonic pickup (flash potted) and a fully wax saturated pickup then I suggest you get your ears tested. No joke or insult intended, there is a big difference.

[David King]

We discussed the potted vs not potted coils at great length a few years ago. I'm not sure I ready to go through that debate again.

[David Schwab]

If you cant hear a difference between a slightly microphonic pickup (flash potted) and a fully wax saturated pickup then I suggest you get your ears tested. No joke or insult intended, there is a big difference.

Hogwash. And it's not a difference I need. I can make a good sounding pickup that is epoxy encapsulated.

I have pickups in some of my guitars that have not been wax potted at all. Then I have taken them and potted them. They sound the same.

I'd rather have pickups that don't squeal than some that have some negligible microphonic quality. On my basses with epoxy encapsulated (and wax potted) pickup, I can turn the strap lock and you hear that squeak though the amp. You don't need loose windings to have a lively sounding pickup that transfers all the sound of the instrument's body.

And clearly the big names like Duncan make excellent sounding pickups, and they are vacuum wax potted. Nothing wrong with those.

Maybe your pickups don't sound good wax potted. But that's not true of everyone's pickups.

[Stratz]

Hogwash. And it's not a difference I need. I can make a good sounding pickup that is epoxy encapsulated.

I have pickups in some of my guitars that have not been wax potted at all. Then I have taken them and potted them. They sound the same.

I'd rather have pickups that don't squeal than some that have some negligible microphonic quality. On my basses with epoxy encapsulated (and wax potted) pickup, I can turn the strap lock and you hear that squeak though the amp. You don't need loose windings to have a lively sounding pickup that transfers all the sound of the instrument's body.

And clearly the big names like Duncan make excellent sounding pickups, and they are vacuum wax potted. Nothing wrong with those.

Maybe your pickups don't sound good wax potted. But that's not true of everyone's pickups.

I'm not talking about squealing. I'm talking about coils that sing in a special way.
Like I said, perhaps you need to have your ears tested.

All of my pickups sound excellent by the way.

[David Schwab]

I'm not talking about squealing. I'm talking about coils that sing in a special way.
Like I said, perhaps you need to have your ears tested.

All of my pickups sound excellent by the way.

There's nothing wrong with my ears, or my playing. Let's hear your pickups, and we will compare mine, if you want to be that way about it. Let's hear those singing coils.

The people that talk about non potted pickups are usually the same ones that think paper-in-oil tone caps give some special "tone" to the guitar and all that other hooey. And it's usually some kind of roots style music and tones, etc. It's all very cliché.

I have players in and out of here all week long. These are both weekend warriors and pros. What do they have in their guitars? Duncan, Dimarzio, EMG, etc. No unpotted humbuckers. None of these guys have a problem with their hearing, or their playing.

[Stratz]

I have players in and out of here all week long.

And you still have time to spend most of the day on various forums with an answer for just about every single topic that comes up.,,,, You're truly amazing, and with perfect pitch to boot.

You're a far better man than I.

[David Schwab]

And you still have time to spend most of the day on various forums with an answer for just about every single topic that comes up.,,,, You're truly amazing, and with perfect pitch to boot.

You're a far better man than I.

I don't spend most of the day on various forums. But I do get emails all day long, and some of those are messages on forums. This is what I do full time. All day long. My computer is in the same room I wind pickups in. So when I take a break I can head over here.

As far as perfect pitch, well you can develop that. I was a musician long before I started winding pickups. I started building guitars and making pickups for my own use.

But if you want people to believe that wax potting ruins some special quality in the pickups, let's hear it. My experience is that it doesn't. But I said maybe on your pickups it does.

So for the sake of science, wind a pickup and pot it like you do, and put it in a guitar and record it. Then take it out and wax pot it fully, and then record it again with the same setup.

Also keep in mind that Gibson never used to pot their pickups. But now they do. Rickenbacker didn't either. I've rewound those and potted them and they sound like you would expect them to.

[Stratz]

Hogwash.

Believe what ever you want but please, stop posting your opinion as if it's a fact. You do it constantly and it may incorrectly influence readers.
There are a lot of things that you don't hear that many others do such as differences in finish, the list goes on and on. From what I've read from so many of your postings it's my assumption that you simply don't have the hearing that many others do.

Also keep in mind that Gibson never used to pot their pickups. But now they do.

Yeah you're right. They pot every one of them. Duncan does too. It makes no difference whatsoever
I'd like to stick around and argue since you always love to give me a hard time but I have to go and bias my late 50's Mesa Triple Rectifier

[David Schwab]

Believe what ever you want but please, stop posting your opinion as if it's a fact. You do it constantly and it may incorrectly influence readers.
There are a lot of things that you don't hear that many others do such as differences in finish, the list goes on and on. From what I've read from so many of your postings it's my assumption that you simply don't have the hearing that many others do.

That's what you are doing as well. Go back and read your post. Then when someone doesn't agree with you there's something wrong with their ears.

Yeah, hearing differences is finish... OK now you lost all credibility. People believe they hear what they want to hear. You can tell people the truth, but they don't listen.

But go ahead and record some samples and let us hear them. If not its all talk.

...but I have to go and bias my late 50's Mesa Triple Rectifier

You don't bias Mesas.

[big_teee]

Hey Guys, ain't it just better to just show a little respect for each other and Go On!
Enough of the Pissing Contest.
Everytime I do it I just get Wet.
T

[Stratz]

Then when someone doesn't agree with you there's something wrong with their ears.

I'm pretty certain its only your hearing that I've questioned David. And since you cant hear the differences between certain materials which many others can you adamantly state it as a fact that there are none when many others do in fact hear it.

But it doesn't end there. You seem to be very defensive and confrontational about a lot of things for some reason.
Read back to the neo magnet charger thread. I was simply replying to David Kings post about neo magnet safety and because I mentioned drill press vises it appears you immediately thought I was addressing your high quality Palmgren vise when that wasn't the case at all. Quite the contrary, I was writing about the cheap HF vise and large magnets that I use.
Without ever seeing my setup you proceeded to tell me that there was no way that a neo magnet could pull the jaw closed. You also proceeded to tell me this

You don't need magnets larger than that

. How do you know what I need?

You do this sort of thing to members all of the time David. You may want to try and lighten up a bit.
Your way isn't the only way.

You don't bias Mesas.

I think the late 50's models had an adjustable bias.

[Stratz]

Hey Guys, ain't it just better to just show a little respect for each other and Go On!
Enough of the Pissing Contest.
Everytime I do it I just get Wet.
T

No pissing match Terry. Just clearing up some misinformation.
Thanks though.