Peavey T-60 Super Ferrite specifications

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
I posted about this before. Has anyone removed the epoxy from one of these? I saw it in a post but cannot find it again. I would like to wind one to fit in an original cover but I cannot find any specs at
all. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
I find it hard to believe no one has taken one of these apart

[rjb]

I don't know what "Super Ferrite" means, but I've disassembled and am currently rebuilding a pair of T-60 pickups.

Mine have the black plastic toaster slots - 2 steel blades with a central magnet (what Hartley Peavey calls "induced magnet" pickups).
I surmise the exposed blade T-60s used plated magnet blades ("direct magnet" pickups in Peavey parlance), but don't know for sure.
http://www.peavey.com/support/techno.../chapter_5.pdf

What do you want to know?

[rjb]

Hello,
...Has anyone removed the epoxy from one of these? I saw it in a post but cannot find it again.

Maybe you were thinking of this thread? http://music-electronics-forum.com/t12872/

[SpareRibs]

Hello rjb,
I was wondering if the blades, bobbins, and magnets are standard humbucking size ? I have read the PDF chapter 5.
While informative technically it had very few specifics regarding actual construction.

[rjb]

Hello rjb,
I was wondering if the blades, bobbins, and magnets are standard humbucking size ?

I'm not a "real" pickup maker- just a guy who breaks things and tries to fix them.
So I'm not sure what "standard" sizes would be for humbucking blade pickup parts.

However, I did hold a T60 cover next to a PAF-style humbucker cover, and they seem about the same dimensions.
So, if you have parts that will fit in a PAF cover, I'm pretty sure they will also fit in a T60 cover.

I just looked up blade pickup parts at Mojotone, and they are not the same dimensions as the T60 parts.
In the customer comments, David Schwab noted that the Mojo blade bobbins I found do not fit in covers.

Here are approximate dimensions of the T60 parts:
Blades: 2-1/4" x 5/8" x 1/16"
Magnet: 2-1/4" x 1/2" x 3/16"

Bobbins
Outer dimensions (not counting spacers): 2-11/16" x 5/8" x 5/16"H
Core (guesstimate): 2-5/16" x 1/4" x 1/4"

I have read the PDF chapter 5.
While informative technically it had very few specifics regarding actual construction.

The bobbin design and construction are a little different than other pickups.
The slots in the bobbins are about twice as wide as the blades; the gap is filled with some rubbery substance (gasket sealer?)
Four cylinders are molded into the bobbin backs; two of them act as stops to hold the magnet in place.
Coil ends and hookup wires are soldered to terminal pins that are embedded in the front of the bobbins.
The two bobbins are held together with packing tape (and the magnetic force between the blades).
The "toaster slot" shapes are on the bottom of the vacuum-formed .01" thick styrene potting tub.
A layer of thin rubber tape runs down the center of the cover; another layer covers the magnet and blades.

I hope to post a thread with T60 gut shots pretty soon.

[SpareRibs]

Hello rjb,
Thank you for the information. I really hope you do post photos. That would help a great deal.
Here is some of the information I have been able to glean from my intense search. The toasters have 2000winds of #42awg per coil, making a reading of 2.8K per coil.The blades have 3750 winds of #42awg per coil with a reading of 5.3K per coil. One other interesting thing is that the start of the coil is positive and finish is the ground. I understand that it acts somewhat as a shield for the coil. It is different from the way all of the other pickups are designed.
Chip Todd said on one of the forums that when the guitar was designed he would have rather have had 300K pots for the tone control as the pickup would have sounded better in the humbucker mode. I guess that could be an easy mod for someone doing a complete rewire of a T-60.
Anyway that is about all I could come up with so far, if I come across anything else that I think would be of interest to you I will let you know. Thanks again!

[rjb]

Hey SpareRibs,

Just making sure we're on the same page....
In your previous thread, I think you were asking how to hook up Peavey Super Ferrite tapped single coils. http://music-electronics-forum.com/t31552/
In this thread, I think we're talking about winding a center-tapped blade humbucker to fit in a Peavey T60 cover- presumably because you have a dead T60 pickup(?)
I don't know if Peavey ever called T60 pickups "Super Ferrite" or if Super Ferrite pickups were tapped single coils.
Just to be sure, does your pickup look like this? This is the kind I'm rebuilding.

The toasters have 2000winds of #42awg per coil, making a reading of 2.8K per coil.The blades have 3750 winds of #42awg per coil with a reading of 5.3K per coil.

Those numbers sound familiar, but I think they're in reference to T40 bass pickups.
My bridge pickup coils origionally measured 4.0K and 4.3K (total 8.3K). I don't have a reading for the neck pickup.
But the Peavey T60 wiring diagram/schematic lists the same part number for bridge & neck pickups- so they should be close.
8.3K is in the same ballpark as a PAF type humbucker (~5000+ turns per coil).
I wound my bridge pickup coils to 5000 turns and 5200 turns; the DCRs are about 3.9K and 4.0K (and vary with temperature).
My hand wound coils probably have looser tension than commercial pickups... maybe lower DCR due to less wire stretching....

One other interesting thing is that the start of the coil is positive and finish is the ground. I understand that it acts somewhat as a shield for the coil. It is different from the way all of the other pickups are designed.

This is in reference to single coil pickups.
In most humbuckers, both coils are wound CCW Start-to-Finish.
The two Finish ends are then tied together; one Start goes to signal and the other to ground.

Chip Todd said on one of the forums that when the guitar was designed he would have rather have had 300K pots for the tone control as the pickup would have sounded better in the humbucker mode.

Yea, those 250K pots probably are a major contributor to the muddy sound in humbucker mode.
Maybe they could only get those special "S taper" pots in 250K?

I guess that could be an easy mod for someone doing a complete rewire of a T-60.

I started this project 3 years ago, and put it away when I realized I was over my head.
If I knew then what I've learned from this forum in the mean time, I would have tried some less invasive methods before tearing the pickup apart.

Take care,
-rb

[SpareRibs]

Hello rjb,
Yes that is the pickup in question. The numbers from the actual reading you have are the most accurate because they came from a functional pickup.The ones I put in here came off the internet, they very well could be bass pickup numbers or from a single coil. Apparently Super Ferrite covers all of them, maybe because of the ceramic magnets used.
It is good to be in contact with someone who has hands on experience with an actual T-60 pickup. I really love my T-60, but it is getting to be somewhat of a pain as the information is hard to obtain involving the pickups and the fact that there are no direct replacements.
When i first got the guitar the wiring was a mess. I wired it using the Gibson 50's style. The pickups did not do so good wired like that. With the correct wiring diagram and utilizing the 300K s taper pots I may have better luck.
I want to thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and experience pertaining to T-60 pickups. I hope you still plan to post photos of the insides, that would be very helpful as I am still not clear about the cylinders. However it may become evident when I start the process.

[rjb]

I really love my T-60, but it is getting to be somewhat of a pain as the information is hard to obtain involving the pickups and the fact that there are no direct replacements.
When i first got the guitar the wiring was a mess. I wired it using the Gibson 50's style. The pickups did not do so good wired like that.

I'm still not clear on this... do you have two working T-60 pickups?

With the correct wiring diagram and utilizing the 300K s taper pots I may have better luck.

Then I take it you do have a copy of the "official" wiring diagram/schematic.
(Note: The Peavey wiring diagram is correct, but the schematic has some minor errors: The phase switch wiring is wrong, and the tone pot arrows point in the wrong direction.)

I hope you still plan to post photos of the insides,

Will do.

that would be very helpful as I am still not clear about the cylinders. However it may become evident when I start the process.

If you strip the epoxy, you'll see the cylinders! They look like spacers built into the bobbin (but they don't "space" anything); two of them act as stops to hold the magnet in place. I guess the four posts were somehow used to mount the bobbin to the winding machine.

[rjb]

Here are pics I promised.

Brass back (baseplate) removed from cover- note four cylindrical standoffs molded into bobbins, and rubber tape over magnet.


Pickup pulled from cover- cover and pickup fronts. Note "toaster slots" are vacuum-formed in bottom of plastic potting tub.


Pickup pulled from cover- cover inside and pickup back side. Note cable is embedded in epoxy


Rubber tape and magnet removed. Note bobbins secured with packing tape.


Side view with potting tub removed. Note epoxy covers a multitude of sins (coil wire extends beyond bobbin flange).


Other side.


Front of bobbins after epoxy removed. Oops- One of the terminal pins got busted from the white bobbin.
Also note little square nubbins on bobbins- these space bobbins from bottom of potting tub.


BTW, I removed the epoxy with a heat gun and a screwdriver-shaped plastic probe; I'm sure there are safer methods.
I replaced damaged terminal pins with pins cannibalized from an old transistor socket; crazy-glued them to front of bobbins.

[David Schwab]

I don't know what "Super Ferrite" means, but I've disassembled and am currently rebuilding a pair of T-60 pickups.

Mine have the black plastic toaster slots - 2 steel blades with a central magnet (what Hartley Peavey calls "induced magnet" pickups).
I surmise the exposed blade T-60s used plated magnet blades ("direct magnet" pickups in Peavey parlance), but don't know for sure.
http://www.peavey.com/support/techno.../chapter_5.pdf

What do you want to know?

My notes say:

"Early models 78-82/83 have covered dual magnet humbucking pickups (often referred to as “toaster” style). These pickups are noted for being somewhat warmer sounding without quite as much gain as, but perhaps more "thickness" than, the blade models.


The 82/83 and later models have single magnet and exposed blade humbucking pickups. The single magnet design is more efficient and these pickups are noted for having greater attack and high end with more gain than the "toaster" style."

This is what Chip Todd, the pickup's designer said:

The original pickup design had a plastic plate that filled in the oval openings in the pickup cover but the plate was eliminated to save cost, being the only injection molding process.

The blades were introduced to allow the pickup to be closer to the strings without having the main body of the pickup in the player’s way. It also strengthened the magnetic field and eliminated one of the magnets. The blades allowed us to keep the same number of turns around the bobbins, (which is where the power comes from), while reducing the resistance at the same time.

This kept the same power while allowing the option of more treble overtones. All of the tones available on the original pickups were there on the “blade”
pickups, but the reduced resistance from the total length of wire also allowed more treble overtones to be reproduced. I greatly prefer the exposed blade pickups.

That one seems to have the covered blades and one magnet.

[rjb]

My notes say:

"Early models 78-82/83 have covered dual magnet humbucking pickups...

The 82/83 and later models have single magnet and exposed blade humbucking pickups....

That one seems to have the covered blades and one magnet.

Oh, no!
I probably trashed a pair of rare and highly collectible "transitional" P-60s (so rare that nobody knows they exist).

That could explain the "skinny blade in a fat slot" with rubber filling.
Maybe the bobbins were originally designed to hold fatter magnets.
I had guessed the rubber was meant to be a "shock absorber" to quell feedback.

This is what Chip Todd, the pickup's designer said:
The original pickup design had a plastic plate that filled in the oval openings in the pickup cover but the plate was eliminated to save cost, being the only injection molding process.

Mine had potting tubs vacuum-formed of very thin plastic (~.01" styrene), with the ovals shaped in the bottom.
I vacuum-formed replacement faceplates from .02" styrene.

The blades allowed us to keep the same number of turns around the bobbins, (which is where the power comes from), while reducing the resistance at the same time.

I don't get this. If the bobbins are the same size/shape, and the number of turns is unchanged, shouldn't the DCR be unchanged?
Maybe later bobbins were skinnier (just wide enough to accommodate the blade thickness)?

If anything, it seems to me the inductance would be increased (steel vs. ceramic magnet core), raising the overall impedance.
But that would also raise Q, possibly making the pickup sound brighter.... or something like that.

[SpareRibs]

Hello rjb, Yes I have two pickups but the neck over powers the bridge really bad. I have tried height adjustment checked the wiring to no avail. I also have a wiring diagram and am aware of the mistakes.
I want to wind some pickups as hot as the blades. The photos you posted are exactly the solution I was looking for. As David Schwab posted mine are the ones with two magnets as the guitar is a 1979 model, which would be the weaker ones with less clarity.
I think the cylinders may just be for positioning the inner workings so that the epoxy can encapsulate all of it. I think there may be other ways to achieve the same goal without the injection molded bobbins, also maybe the connector pins can be eliminated. I agree with you about the similarities between the T-60's and humbuckers.
I would like to thank you very much for all the time and effort you spent with the photos and information you provided. I am more confident I can do this armed with all of that.

[rjb]

I have two pickups but the neck over powers the bridge really bad. I have tried height adjustment....

I don't think Peavey made a distinction between bridge and neck pickups in these guitars.
If one happens to be hotter than the other, I would use that one in the bridge position.
But I bet you thought of that already.