Min/Nom, or Nom/Max?

[big_teee]

A Sales Rep. at Remington Industries asked me if They stocked any Nom/Max wire in Single Poly(42SPN) if it would sell.
Wire Dstributors can purchase wire from the Elektrisola Plant in the normally sold Min/Nom size.
Or on Special order of 250 lbs or more, they can get a run of Nom/Max.
I haven't been told yet what the real size would be for Nom/Max wire.
I told him if they could keep it in the .00265-.00280" size, IMO that would be great.
So if you want to see Nom/Max wire Stocked at Remington, give your vote here.
I told them I thought there would some demand for it.
They would also stock the normally made Min/Nom.
T

[big_teee]

**Update!
I just got an email and was told that the Nom/Max for 42SPN, would be .00280-.0030".
I told him I thought that would be getting too large for SPN.
I have a roll of PE like that, and it limits the turns on most bobbins quite a bit.
What do you think?
Some Middle ground here should would be nice?
It seems we get either too small or too large!
T

[ReWind]

Was it Josh at Remington? I talked to him yesterday, too, but have not yet replied about the nom-max. Personally, I hardly use poly at all. When I do, it's min-nom. In PE I use some nom-max, a little in 42 AWG and more in 43 AWG.

Here's the specs for the 42 AWG, per MWS's website. It's the same stuff. Both get it from Elektrisola, MWS gets it directly and does some additional spec'ing. Remington gets it from a relay/solenoid manufacturer in the auto industry and sells the remains - hence the better price.

NSULATION INFORMATION:
Temperature Class: 155° C
Insulation Type: Polyurethane-155
MWS Code: P155 NEMA Specification: MW 79C
Federal Specification: JW1177/41
IEC Specification: 317-20
Insulation Characteristics:
A high temperature polyurethane that exhibits similar properties to the older class 130° C polyurethane with thermal characteristics of a 155° C insulation while soldering at 390° C.
General Applications:
Motors, R.F. coils, relay, encapsulated coils, ignition coils, solenoids, low voltage transformers, layer and precision wound coils.
BARE WIRE SPECIFICATIONS:
DCR based on resistivity of 10.371 ohms per circular mil foot @ 20°C ( 100%IACS Conductivity)

AWG Bare Min. Bare Nom. Bare Max. DCR Min. DCR Nom. DCR Max. cmils feet per lb
42 0.0024 0.0025 0.0026 1534 1659 1801 6.25 52900

INSULATED WIRE SPECIFICATION:
Values listed below are derived from the NEMA MW1000-1997 Standard or MWS Wire Industries internal inspection criteria
Insulation Build Insulated Min. Insulated Nom. Insulated Max. Film Increase Min. Feet per LB.
Single 0.0026 0.0028 0.0030 0.0002 50940
Heavy 0.0028 0.0030 0.0032 0.0004 49600
Triple 0.0030 0.0032 0.0035 0.0007 48260
Quad 0.0032 0.0034 0.0036 46920

INSULATED WIRE SPECIFICATION:
Values listed below are derived from the NEMA MW1000-2003 ( Only those values changed will be displayed)
Insulation Build Insulated Min. Insulated Nom. Insulated Max. Min Increase In Film
Single
Heavy .0029 .0033 .0005
Triple .0031 .0036 .0007
AWG Sizes Covered By Specification:
Specification Single Heavy Triple Quad
NEMA MW1000-1997 ( 14 AWG - 56 AWG ) ( 4 AWG - 50 AWG ) ( 14 AWG - 44 AWG ) ( 14 AWG - 30 AWG ) - NEMA MW16C Only
MWS Wire Industries ( 57 AWG - 60 AWG ) ( 51 AWG - 56 AWG ) ( 45 AWG - 53 AWG ) ( 31 AWG - 53 AWG )
NEMA MW1000-2003 ( 14 AWG - 56 AWG ) ( 4 AWG - 50 AWG ) ( 14 AWG - 46 AWG ) ( 14 AWG - 46 AWG )

[ReWind]

Terry,

Try 43 nom-max, maybe? It's JUST under the spec of 42 min-nom, if you look at the size of the actual copper core. Remember there are separate tolerance ranges for both copper and insulation as the wire size changes.

INSULATION INFORMATION:
Temperature Class: 155° C
Insulation Type: Polyurethane-155
MWS Code: P155 NEMA Specification: MW 79C
Federal Specification: JW1177/41
IEC Specification: 317-20
Insulation Characteristics:
A high temperature polyurethane that exhibits similar properties to the older class 130° C polyurethane with thermal characteristics of a 155° C insulation while soldering at 390° C.
General Applications:
Motors, R.F. coils, relay, encapsulated coils, ignition coils, solenoids, low voltage transformers, layer and precision wound coils.
BARE WIRE SPECIFICATIONS:
DCR based on resistivity of 10.371 ohms per circular mil foot @ 20°C ( 100%IACS Conductivity)

AWG Bare Min. Bare Nom. Bare Max. DCR Min. DCR Nom. DCR Max. cmils feet per lb
43 0.0021 0.0022 0.0023 1960 2143 2352 4.84 68300

INSULATED WIRE SPECIFICATION:
Values listed below are derived from the NEMA MW1000-1997 Standard or MWS Wire Industries internal inspection criteria
Insulation Build Insulated Min. Insulated Nom. Insulated Max. Film Increase Min. Feet per LB.
Single 0.0023 0.0025 0.0026 0.0002 66140
Heavy 0.0025 0.0027 0.0029 0.0004 63170
Triple 0.0027 0.0029 0.0032 0.0006 60200
Quad 0.0029 0.0031 0.0033 57230

INSULATED WIRE SPECIFICATION:
Values listed below are derived from the NEMA MW1000-2003 ( Only those values changed will be displayed)
Insulation Build Insulated Min. Insulated Nom. Insulated Max. Min Increase In Film
Single
Heavy
Triple
Quad .0035 .0008
AWG Sizes Covered By Specification:
Specification Single Heavy Triple Quad
NEMA MW1000-1997 ( 14 AWG - 56 AWG ) ( 4 AWG - 50 AWG ) ( 14 AWG - 44 AWG ) ( 14 AWG - 30 AWG ) - NEMA MW16C Only
MWS Wire Industries ( 57 AWG - 60 AWG ) ( 51 AWG - 56 AWG ) ( 45 AWG - 53 AWG ) ( 31 AWG - 53 AWG )
NEMA MW1000-2003 ( 14 AWG - 56 AWG ) ( 4 AWG - 50 AWG ) ( 14 AWG - 46 AWG ) ( 14 AWG - 46 AWG )


These specs all show both min-nom and nom-max, btw. They are more easily view at the MWS site, in graphic tables, but I posted the text here for simplicity.

[big_teee]

Remington was only going to do a run in 42SP, or maybe 42SPN, not sure which?
All my experience is when the OD goes up, it because the wire inside is larger.
So a 42SPN wire in the .0028-.0030 is getting too big for humbuckers, Maybe neck pickups only?
If I am going to use a wire that large on SCs, then I want it to be HPN, or HFV.
Thanks for the input.
T

[copperheadroads]

It's the same stuff. Both get it from Elektrisola, MWS gets it directly and does some additional spec'ing. Remington gets it from a relay/solenoid manufacturer in the auto industry and sells the remains - hence the better price.

I thought Remington's PE was more expensive than MWS

[copperheadroads]

Remington was only going to do a run in 42SP, or maybe 42SPN, not sure which?
All my experience is when the OD goes up, it because the wire inside is larger.
So a 42SPN wire in the .0028-.0030 is getting too big for humbuckers, Maybe neck pickups only?
If I am going to use a wire that large on SCs, then I want it to be HPN, or HFV.
Thanks for the input.
T

I'd like to have some with similar specs as PE
.00265 TO .0027 OD & just so important is the bare wire diameter which I will have to do a bit of digging to find it

[David King]

If they could just let us know what the ohms per foot was on each spool I'd be happier.

[big_teee]

I told him, that for myself I like the 42 SPN to be in the 265-275 range.
If it was bigger than that, I probably wouldn't buy any of it.
Now HPN is another story, IMO the bigger the better.
T
**BTW, My understanding is that Remington buys the SPN, and HPN Direct from the Elektrisola plant in IND.
The PE is probably purchased from someone else, thus the higher price.

[big_teee]

Got another email from Remington, and they got straight from Elektrisola, that they could make wire in the tolerance from .00265-.00275.
"They can hold 0.067/0.070 mm. It would only be available in Natural on 5"x5" biconical spools."
It would also cost an additional $6 a pound.
Please discuss!
T

[ReWind]

I thought Remington's PE was more expensive than MWS

It is. I was posting specs for the poly they sell.

[David King]

Terry, I was only paying $6 a pound for SPN off eBay. I'm not into paying $18 + a $6 surcharge per pound unless I can really hear a difference. I don't think bassists are that fussy. Guitars are different.

[big_teee]

Terry, I was only paying $6 a pound for SPN off eBay. I'm not into paying $18 + a $6 surcharge per pound unless I can really hear a difference. I don't think bassists are that fussy. Guitars are different.

Me too, I don't wind enough pickups to bother.
They asked my opinion so I'm passing it on to the group.
Don't think anyone will bite on that deal.

[Bryan Jeppson]

I have some poly I bought from Jason Lollar's posting here a year or two ago, which is slightly heavier build than run of the mill SPN (I can easily tell from comparing coils w/ same # of turns), but not quite as thick as HPN. Makes great sounding underwound HBs (if you're into that). Unfortunately I don't have a micrometer, so I'm not sure of the exact OD, but if it's the same as or very close to Norm/Max Single Poly, I'd be interested.