covering Super Distortion Hex screws with cut-off pole screw tops.

[big_teee]

I've read this, and for the life of me can't understand how anyone would call that a bright pickup. It's not. Maybe when distorted, but then you're not hearing the pickup as much as the generated harmonics. Played clean it's very dark and has no snap. Strats and Teles are bright!

You also don't need a strong magnet to get a loud bright humbucker. I make some using alnico 5 magnets. But I'm not winding it to 16k!

A guitarist I play in a band with has a JB in the bridge position of his Brian More guitar. He liked the Duncan Distortion in his Gibson Victory guitar better. He wanted to swap pickups, but the DD was not spaced for the trem. So as an experiment I replaced the alnico 5 magnet with a ceramic of similar strength to the Distortion, since the two pickups are similar. It did not really get much brighter, but now has a bit more mids and sounds clearer when playing chords. You can hear the individual notes a little better.

Try a little more Turns of offset on the screw coil, or less on the slug coil, if you want a overwound pickup brighter.
I usually do the opposite, because I like bridge pickups darker.
Your mileage may vary, and this is strictly IMO, but worth a Try!
T

[CRU JONES]

I've read this, and for the life of me can't understand how anyone would call that a bright pickup. It's not. Maybe when distorted, but then you're not hearing the pickup as much as the generated harmonics. Played clean it's very dark and has no snap. Strats and Teles are bright!

You also don't need a strong magnet to get a loud bright humbucker. I make some using alnico 5 magnets. But I'm not winding it to 16k!

A guitarist I play in a band with has a JB in the bridge position of his Brian More guitar. He liked the Duncan Distortion in his Gibson Victory guitar better. He wanted to swap pickups, but the DD was not spaced for the trem. So as an experiment I replaced the alnico 5 magnet with a ceramic of similar strength to the Distortion, since the two pickups are similar. It did not really get much brighter, but now has a bit more mids and sounds clearer when playing chords. You can hear the individual notes a little better.

You Know what I think? I think your buddy got a JB that is, let's say, slightly "Off"? All those pickups wound with 44ga vary. I wind for a lot of metal dudes (Shhhhh) so I get to play a lot of them. I have a JB in a guitar right here. I could see how it wouldn't be your thing, but it definitely could be described as "bright". It's not "dark" at all. You could even describe it as thin. A lot of guys like it and I like it too. I have trouble hand winding 44ga. My sweaty mitts stretch the wire and it comes out dull sounding. Maybe someday I'll work that out, for the moment I use my machine.

If you get a Dark Duncan Distortion keep it! A dark Tone Zone, on the other hand, is a dog. All three of these are 44ga pickups could be a possibility.

David, so do I understand this correctly, you put a ceramic in the JB? Just the idea is painful to my ears I think it must be an out of spec one. Even Seymour describes it as "bright" and recommends using 250k controls to tame the brightness. I don't recommend that. Some of the USA Jackson Soloists came that way and everyone wants it changed. It is just not aggressive at all with 250k controls. Good for elevator rock, maybe? :P

I think its a dud, but sounds like it is working good now

[David Schwab]

You Know what I think? I think your buddy got a JB that is, let's say, slightly "Off"? All those pickups wound with 44ga vary.

No they don't. They are all machine wound in a modern factory. This is not the only JB I have had contact with. I install lots of pickups because I run a repair shop. Every JB I have ever heard sounds exactly the same. Duncan pickups are very consistent.

I've even wound my own version of the JB, and it sounds like a JB. Forget what Duncan says on the website, have you ever played one?

Tone Zones are wound with two different gauge wires. Only one coil is wound with 44.

Yes, I put a ceramic magnet in a JB, which more-or-less turns it into a Duncan Distortion. How is it painful to your ears? I'll tell you right now you are wrong. It had a little more midrange, but basically sounded the same.

Ever heard a Duncan Distrtion? What do you think the end result sounded like? I think you think that ceramic magnets are bright sounding. They aren't. it depends on the pickup. Listen to some Bartolini bass pickups to hear how warm and fat they are, with ceramic magnets.

I challenge YOU to wind a pickup with 44 gauge wire to 16k with am alnico magnet and have it sound bright. Give it a try and then come back with your recording of that pickup clean, with no distortion.

And it wasn't a dud, it was a standard JB that sounds like every JB. For as many as I have installed over the years, I have replaced more of them.

[jasyr]

Why would you spend inflated process? Just get them from Mojo.

As far as your strict rules, you are limiting yourself based on nothing important. Try to let go of that stuff. Be different and stand out from the crowd. Do you dress like everyone else too?

Visually I prefer pickups that don't look like PAFs. But i have some of them on my guitars too.

These look pretty cool to me. Why mess up the clean look with poles? (these pickups have blades anyway)

Them is purdy. Just need the right axe wrapped around them. Only firebird pup i ever had has that dumb Duncan logo on it.

There's guitars that i've really liked... but if they had plain covers it usually looked off to me. If the over-all look of the guitar works for the covers, then ok. Guitars w/plain covers work for me on; european 50's-inspired things for example. I recall you are a designer. I'm not. At the end of the day i cant look at a guitar unless its figuring out which one to plug in!! Best is to not even know whats in my hands, then i know i'm getting work done.

I guess my 'strict rules' is just another way of saying that after 40 years of playing i have well defined tendencies... though out of my 2 dozen guitars i do have some monstrosities only a mother could love, so i'm ok with different. (Kent Armstrong told me the Rock Treble pickup i ordered a few weeks back --in a gold metal plain hb cover w/ a silver chromed blade-- would look "crap". I think it will be the bee's knees in my zemaitis/ron wood inspired frankenstein.

I like the after-market covers i do because they got the vintage detail... and unfortunately them dimples and particular corners cost! And most covers that are aged look like bad 80's acid-washed jeans. I know, i know... i distract myself enough on the tone quest, but there aren't enough days in the week for me to become a metallurgist and get into other sorts of acid. I'm a Gibson guy so them old covers are just IT. Although would really like to have a guild with HB-1's...

[David Schwab]

Them is purdy. Just need the right axe wrapped around them.

Naw. Pickups are pickups. I like when I see a guitar and it has something unusual on it. It makes you wonder what's going on there. You want your guitar to be like everyone else's?

I don't normally like these BFGs, but this one looks bad ass with three of my pickups (with slightly distressed black chrome covers).

[CRU JONES]

No they don't. They are all machine wound in a modern factory. This is not the only JB I have had contact with. I install lots of pickups because I run a repair shop. Every JB I have ever heard sounds exactly the same. Duncan pickups are very consistent.

I've even wound my own version of the JB, and it sounds like a JB. Forget what Duncan says on the website, have you ever played one?

I think you have to like the jb to notice it's true character.

Tone Zones are wound with two different gauge wires. Only one coil is wound with 44.

Yes 44. I am not convinced only one coil is 44ga, but I trust you since I have certainly not unwound one.

Yes, I put a ceramic magnet in a JB, which more-or-less turns it into a Duncan Distortion. How is it painful to your ears? I'll tell you right now you are wrong. It had a little more midrange, but basically sounded the same.

Ever heard a Duncan Distrtion? What do you think the end result sounded like? I think you think that ceramic magnets are bright sounding. They aren't. it depends on the pickup. Listen to some Bartolini bass pickups to hear how warm and fat they are, with ceramic magnets.

Yes, I own DD's too. I play metal and DD's are aggressive and great, but much to bright for clean sections. The JB is perfect and I kept the one I like most out of the 4 Jackson USA RR1's I have owned (they come stock). Its subjective I know, but I love this one. I wind my own pickups for my other guitars, but my San Dimas RR1 gets the "Magic JB". Seymour is one of my idols so... I love it. Tight bass, aggressive rhythm, amazing leads, and beautiful cleans. RR1-> 5150-> Marshall jcm800 cab loaded with 2xCelestion Century's and 2x70/80's. It is great and bright. So, I know it sounds weird to "win" an argument about something subjective like the term,"Bright", but... Seymour and I think the JB is bright. Two against one.. We Win! It is bright!

I challenge YOU to wind a pickup with 44 gauge wire to 16k with am alnico magnet and have it sound bright. Give it a try and then come back with your recording of that pickup clean, with no distortion.

This sounds fun I have done this. I could just pick up a guitar and record it right now... But, it won't be bright for YOU! Which is fine. Totally fine. I can see where you are coming from. In fact, I like that we come from different places of perspective because it would be boring if everyone was the same.

Cheers!

[David Schwab]

I think you have to like the jb to notice it's true character.

That's a circular argument. I don't like them because they are too dark sounding. They sound good when distorted, but not clean.

Please explain their "true" character. Over wound pickups are over wound pickups.

Yes 44. I am not convinced only one coil is 44ga, but I trust you since I have certainly not unwound one.

Not convinced? Just guessing then? What did you do to determine if it does or doesn't? You don't have to unwind it. Take a resistance reading on each coil.

Notice they are very different? Then, if that doesn't convince you, head over to DiMarzio's web site.

See the patent number on that pickup? #4,501,185.

ABSTRACT
A transducer for a stringed musical instrument includes a pair of coils mounted adjacent each string of the instrument.
The coils have substantially the same number of turns of electrically conducting wire wound thereon, and the wires constituting the coils are of different gauges.

So there you go. DiMarzio uses that idea on LOTS of their pickups, like the Air Norton, etc. I use it too.

Yes, I own DD's too. I play metal and DD's are aggressive and great, but much to bright for clean sections.

Your amp has tone controls on it, right?

This sounds fun I have done this. I could just pick up a guitar and record it right now... But, it won't be bright for YOU! Which is fine. Totally fine. I can see where you are coming from. In fact, I like that we come from different places of perspective because it would be boring if everyone was the same.

Well you don't know what I call bright. The thing with the JB is when you have your amp set clean, and I don't mean tuning down the volume control when it's dirty, it's a muddy sounding pickup. I like to use a lot of different tones, and I play guitar in a very heavy grunge/punk band, so I go with a pickup with a broader frequency response. I actually prefer pickups that sound like they are lower wind, but I make them louder, so they are more sensitive. But you don't need over wound pickups for an aggressive tone. A brighter pickup sounds more aggressive anyway. Just listen to Jimmy Page play a Tele, and with .008 gauge strings.

But lots of guitarist like dark sounding pickups, so who am I to tell them what to use. I have tone controls on my guitar for that....

Here's an example... from 1988, but still relevant. The same pickup was used in the clean and dirty parts of this track. It was a single pickup guitar, made from acrylic plastic. It had a poplar Danelectro neck from the 50s. The pickup was wound to about 15-16k. It had low carbon steel blades and a big ceramic magnet. It could do chimey clean and very dirty distortion.

https://soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon/cant-turn-back

[jasyr]

nice textural contrast ... the smooth pickups fit the overall look of the axe better than the pebbley stock ones... cool!

[Magnetron]

Not convinced? Just guessing then? What did you do to determine if it does or doesn't? You don't have to unwind it. Take a resistance reading on each coil.

Notice they are very different? Then, if that doesn't convince you, head over to DiMarzio's web site.

See the patent number on that pickup? #4,501,185.



So there you go. DiMarzio uses that idea on LOTS of their pickups, like the Air Norton, etc. I use it too.

A year too late to be arguing semantics I suppose, but the both coils of the Tone Zone are wound with 44awg. The screw Coil is wound to 8K, and the slug coil is wound to 9K, so not a terrible drastic difference, (visually as well when looking at the coils) like say their Steves Special model which somewhat more closely follows what is outlined in that patents abstract.

The thing about that 4501 patent, is that DiMarzio tends to not strictly follow what is outlined in it to a T, so I suppose you could argue that a few of their models such as the Tone zone, were never truly covered by it. Not that it matters much now anyway since I do not believe DiMarzio renewed the patent when it expired, and they seem to have been branching away from it with a lot of their newer models.

[David Schwab]

A year too late to be arguing semantics I suppose, but the both coils of the Tone Zone are wound with 44awg. The screw Coil is wound to 8K, and the slug coil is wound to 9K, so not a terrible drastic difference, (visually as well when looking at the coils) like say their Steves Special model which somewhat more closely follows what is outlined in that patents abstract.

The thing about that 4501 patent, is that DiMarzio tends to not strictly follow what is outlined in it to a T, so I suppose you could argue that a few of their models such as the Tone zone, were never truly covered by it. Not that it matters much now anyway since I do not believe DiMarzio renewed the patent when it expired, and they seem to have been branching away from it with a lot of their newer models.

You're right about the Tone Zone. Odd they would use that patent number. The Air Norton, Norton, Evolution, Steve's Special, and I think the Fred use two different gauge wires.

Yeah, those patents are expired. They protected them for the length of time patents are supposed to. I make a number of pickups with different wire gauges.

[Magnetron]

You're right about the Tone Zone. Odd they would use that patent number. The Air Norton, Norton, Evolution, Steve's Special, and I think the Fred use two different gauge wires.

Yeah, those patents are expired. They protected them for the length of time patents are supposed to. I make a number of pickups with different wire gauges.

The other kicker is this as well: IIRC the patent's abstract clearly stated that both coils had to have the same number of turns as well, so it's not just the different gauge that solidifies coverage, but both conditions have to be met. I have a feeling that a lot of their models that were/are produced with the dual resonance technology, were never really fully covered by that patent... but DiMarzio was a company like Mesa that loved litigation scare tactics towards competitors, so I doubt anybody would have volunteered to defend any possible infringement regardless of how unfounded it would have been (supposing if it was even worth bothering to do so that is).

[David Schwab]

The other kicker is this as well: IIRC the patent's abstract clearly stated that both coils had to have the same number of turns as well, so it's not just the different gauge that solidifies coverage, but both conditions have to be met.

The patent says:

The present invention avoids the shortcomings of prior two-coil hum-bucking pickups by winding the coils such that both coils of the pair have substantially the same number of turns but are wound with wire of different diameter or gauge. It has been found that by means of this construction, low frequency cancellation is emphasized, providing more effective elimination of 60 cycle hum without affecting the higher harmonics of the 60 cycle signal which may contribute to the desired tonal qualities. Moreover, because of the difference in impedance characteristics resulting from different diameter wire on the respective coils, overall frequency response can be selectively adjusted to provide improved tonal qualities.

The key word here is "substantially." That means "for the most part." So it's not strict.

I have a feeling that a lot of their models that were/are produced with the dual resonance technology, were never really fully covered by that patent... but DiMarzio was a company like Mesa that loved litigation scare tactics towards competitors, so I doubt anybody would have volunteered to defend any possible infringement regardless of how unfounded it would have been (supposing if it was even worth bothering to do so that is).

Well the pickups I have examined, like the Air Norton, used two different wire gauges. You can tell this by measuring the resistance of the coils. And it does work. I use it myself on some of my pickups. It seems they said the Tone Zone was covered, but they only mismatched the coils. So the patent notice on that was a bluff.

DiMarzio doesn't seem to mind litigation; they ripped off Kinman, figuring he won't be able to come to NY to appear in court to defend his patent, and they did the same thing to Joe Barden. Only they were polite enough to let him know they were going to do it, and offered him a job, which he turned down.