Greetings from the Lace Pickups team!

[lex@lacemusic]

Hey everyone! Just found this forum and am excited to get on here and start talking to fellow builders/designers about some rad pickups! Here at Lace we have a technology that no one can match, but that doesnt mean we dont like traditional pickups or helping out with information regarding our pickups and other pickups! I personally have worked for a couple different pickup companies, and know a good deal about the process of pickup building and would love to share some pickup love and knowledge, as well as receiving knowledge and being a part of an awesome community where i know my yearning for pickup information will grow immensely! Looking forward to talking to everyone out there on the interweb! And for anyone with questions regarding Lace Pickups, PM me or ask on here and ill help to the best of my ability.

[big_teee]

Welcome:
Sounds Good.
Strictly IMO, but please No Advertising, IMHO that ruins all discussions.
Thanks,
T

[lex@lacemusic]

Yea dont worry, i wont be advertising at all, just wanting to throw out some info where info is needed. And also to help gain my quest for knowledge in this department. I just know that most people dont really understand whats behind our technology, especially with the Alumitones. Ha

[Mark Hammer]

Welcome. Folks have been very generous with their knowledge here, and it hasn't done them a bit of harm. And when someone gets a tip about a new supplier of materials or not-formally-announced changes to the composition or fabrication of raw materials from suppliers, that's helpful to all.

Just keep in mind that, for all the cameraderie and knowledge-sharing here, the internet is available to all, so somewhere out there will be some doofus who can't keep their impolite impulses to themselves and forgets everything their mother told them about keeping a civil tongue. Apart from that, I think you'll find much to enrich here. Keep your list of LACE patent numbers handy to refer people to so you don't have to keep repeating yourself or wearing down your fingertips!

I'll start the ball rolling. What on earth prompted the development of the Alumitone? That's not a criticism. It's just so...out there....relative to standard pickups, that I'm curious as to how, in a universe of very conservative and traditional-minded guitar players, a product like that comes to be.

[bbsailor]

Hey everyone! Just found this forum and am excited to get on here and start talking to fellow builders/designers about some rad pickups! Here at Lace we have a technology that no one can match, but that doesnt mean we dont like traditional pickups or helping out with information regarding our pickups and other pickups! I personally have worked for a couple different pickup companies, and know a good deal about the process of pickup building and would love to share some pickup love and knowledge, as well as receiving knowledge and being a part of an awesome community where i know my yearning for pickup information will grow immensely! Looking forward to talking to everyone out there on the interweb! And for anyone with questions regarding Lace Pickups, PM me or ask on here and ill help to the best of my ability.

Lex,

I have done a lot of experiments with current transformers as they relate to guitar pickups. Here is a free idea that you can use and easily try out to make a pickup where the pickup voicing can be changed by using a second set of "C-shaped laminated cores" and miniature coils. Place a second set of coils and laminations on the opposite side of the Alumitone frame. Then, use a volume pot (1K to about 10K, experiment) wired as a variable resistor across the second set of coils. As you vary the pot you will change the reflected impedance of the Alumium frame or the string loop primary coil and change the voicing of the Alumitone pickup. I call this the Reflected Impedance Tone Equalization or RITE voicing system.

Feel free to use it but just let everyone know that you got this information free from this great technical forum.

Joseph Rogowski

[lex@lacemusic]

Welcome. Folks have been very generous with their knowledge here, and it hasn't done them a bit of harm. And when someone gets a tip about a new supplier of materials or not-formally-announced changes to the composition or fabrication of raw materials from suppliers, that's helpful to all.

Just keep in mind that, for all the cameraderie and knowledge-sharing here, the internet is available to all, so somewhere out there will be some doofus who can't keep their impolite impulses to themselves and forgets everything their mother told them about keeping a civil tongue. Apart from that, I think you'll find much to enrich here. Keep your list of LACE patent numbers handy to refer people to so you don't have to keep repeating yourself or wearing down your fingertips!

I'll start the ball rolling. What on earth prompted the development of the Alumitone? That's not a criticism. It's just so...out there....relative to standard pickups, that I'm curious as to how, in a universe of very conservative and traditional-minded guitar players, a product like that comes to be.

The Alumitone was originally inspired by the matching transformer in a microphone. Because previously we had tried doing setups with a low impedance pickup and a low impedance transformer, and those 2 components combined into one, hence... the birth of The Alumitone.

[lex@lacemusic]

Lex,

I have done a lot of experiments with current transformers as they relate to guitar pickups. Here is a free idea that you can use and easily try out to make a pickup where the pickup voicing can be changed by using a second set of "C-shaped laminated cores" and miniature coils. Place a second set of coils and laminations on the opposite side of the Alumitone frame. Then, use a volume pot (1K to about 10K, experiment) wired as a variable resistor across the second set of coils. As you vary the pot you will change the reflected impedance of the Alumium frame or the string loop primary coil and change the voicing of the Alumitone pickup. I call this the Reflected Impedance Tone Equalization or RITE voicing system.

Feel free to use it but just let everyone know that you got this information free from this great technical forum.

Joseph Rogowski

Thanks for the info man! Jeff Lace and I have actually discussed this method recently. We talked about making a new pickup model with the added secondary, but not with an added volume pot, we greatly appreciate your input and if we ever decide to go through with the design, you will definitely be acknowledged for your research. I knew id fall in love with this forum! Haha

[bbsailor]

Thanks for the info man! Jeff Lace and I have actually discussed this method recently. We talked about making a new pickup model with the added secondary, but not with an added volume pot, we greatly appreciate your input and if we ever decide to go through with the design, you will definitely be acknowledged for your research. I knew id fall in love with this forum! Haha

Lex,

You don't need a volume pot on the second coil but you could use either a simple SPST on/off switch to change the voicing or a on-on-on with a resistor for the middle position to get three pickup voicings. This micro switch could be built into the pickup mounting ring to avoid drilling holes.

When you add the second set of laminations and coils you will raise the AC resistance of the main output coils. Then, when you short out the second coil set the AC restance of the main output coils will drop. In some of my experiments using twin current transformers I can get nearly a 10 time impedance change between the second set of coils either being open or shorted. Here is where you must experiment with the number of turns on the secondary coil set to get a voicing change that pleases the ear.


What gauge wire and how many turns are used on your small Alumitone coils under the shell? I guess it must be near AWG 44 to 46 and about 10,000 turns on each coil and the coils are connected in parallel. Please share what you can.

Joseph Rogowski

[bbsailor]

The Alumitone was originally inspired by the matching transformer in a microphone. Because previously we had tried doing setups with a low impedance pickup and a low impedance transformer, and those 2 components combined into one, hence... the birth of The Alumitone.

Lex,

Related to microphone transformers, you can make an Alumitone with an output impedance of about 250 to 300 ohms to match the bridging impedance of the microphone transformer input impedance of about 3K ohms or even drive a microphone mixer directly. Using a larger AWG wire with 500 to 1000 turns on each coil should get you in the ball park for a quality low Z putput. This will minimize the resonant effect caused by the coax capacitance with a high Z output. This method would be most useful on an acoustic pickup or a speciality jazz type pickup. With an output impedance of 250 to 300 ohms and a peak output level of about 10 to 12 millivolts you would have a transformer voltage boost of about 12 times producing a very low noise pickup and an output after the transformer to match most high-Z amp inputs.


Joseph Rogowski

[Mike Sulzer]

You don't need a volume pot on the second coil...

Why add a secondary? You can just load the original secondary with a resistor.

[bbsailor]

Why add a secondary? You can just load the original secondary with a resistor.

Mike,

The audio output impedance is changed by the square of the turns ratio times the resistance of the primary string coil wire plus the added inductance of one turn around the second laminated core. When the second coil is shorted the total impedance of the primary string loop changes and that change is reflected back into the audio output sort of like using a variety of wire gauges for the primary string loop. Thick primary string loops tend to favor the lower frequencies.


If you simply lowered the load on the primary output coil you would lose a lot of output at the low level of resistance it must be to have a reflected effect.

Current transformers take a while to understand because of the high turns ratios you are dealing with and the large changes that occur with just small changes in the primary string loop impedance and resistance.

Obtain two 1000 turn toroid current transformers (CT) and place a common oblong string loop through both CTs using AWG 6 solid copper wire. Use a copper tube to solder and make a good low resistance connection on the string loop. Use the Extech LCR meter and measure the output of one CT with the second CT both open and shorted. You will see the impedance change when the second CT is either open or shorted.

Using a pair of Prem Magnetics SPCT 251 CTs (E-I frame type) I can see almost a 10 times change in impedance when using Square AWG 4 or 6 wire for the primary string loop. In fact the sound change is almost like making another string loop out of thinner wire like AWG 10 which produces more mid-range frequencies. Adding the pot on the second CT give you a variable and unique way to make a tone or voicing control similar to changing the wire size of the primary string loop.

I hope I have answered your question.

Joseph Rogowski

[Steve Conner]

Interesting. I think the essence of the difference is that the Joe Rogowski method adds series resistance, not shunt resistance, because the added winding is on a second set of cores that makes it a separate magnetic circuit.

Also, welcome to the forum Mr. Lace! I've seen a few DIY pickups inspired by the Alumitones, so the mojo is out there.

[Mike Sulzer]

Mike,

The audio output impedance is changed by the square of the turns ratio times the resistance of the primary string coil wire plus the added inductance of one turn around the second laminated core.

Thanks, Joseph, I think I see what you are doing now. You have described a system in which the second secondary is actually a separate inductor in series with the string loop. With the second secondary open you have an inductance in series with the string loop, and this inductance has a capacitance in parallel. This capacitance is the winding capacitance of the secondary multiplied by one million. Shorting the winding make the series impedance very small. From the point of view of the external circuit, I think this offers the same possibilities as putting circuit elements in series with the secondary of the unmodified system.

From your earlier description, it was not clear that the two secondaries have no mutual impedance as is the case for the system you have just described.

[salvarsan]

Welcome:
Strictly IMO, but please No Advertising, IMHO that ruins all discussions.
T

That depends.

If it's advertising for a cage fight between Lex and Frank Falbo at Seymour Duncan, I wouldn't object.

Lex: welcome to the sandbox.

Remember Mark Hammer's advice on keeping AGI/Lace patent numbers handy.

I remember when the AGI released the TransSensor. I liked it, warts and all.
Still have a set of California Specials installed in another guitar, too, so you might say I like copper.

-The Immoderator

[lex@lacemusic]

Lex,

You don't need a volume pot on the second coil but you could use either a simple SPST on/off switch to change the voicing or a on-on-on with a resistor for the middle position to get three pickup voicings. This micro switch could be built into the pickup mounting ring to avoid drilling holes.

When you add the second set of laminations and coils you will raise the AC resistance of the main output coils. Then, when you short out the second coil set the AC restance of the main output coils will drop. In some of my experiments using twin current transformers I can get nearly a 10 time impedance change between the second set of coils either being open or shorted. Here is where you must experiment with the number of turns on the secondary coil set to get a voicing change that pleases the ear.


What gauge wire and how many turns are used on your small Alumitone coils under the shell? I guess it must be near AWG 44 to 46 and about 10,000 turns on each coil and the coils are connected in parallel. Please share what you can.

Joseph Rogowski

Depending on the Alumitone, wire is either 46 or 47, and have either 4800, 6300, and 7400 turns on each bobbin. All depending on the model of course. And also, each pickup has a specific layout of magnets which helps shape the sound around the turns. I think in the near future, Jeff Lace and i are gonna do some experimenting with the Alumitones and trying to unleash all the capabilities these monsters are hiding. We currently are in the works of designing a Music Man based Alumitone, its gonna be beefy as shit! But the tone control will be like no other MM imitation, so we're excited to see how the players like them. Once some initial R&D starts, ill create a new thread and show updates and current progress. Should be lots of fun!