Rewind Rickenbacker pickups, or order from a custom builder?

[Actual Bigfoot]

Hello one and all!

I apologise for the rather basic nature of my question, only I am a complete newcomer to the world of pickup winding and need a little bit of practical advice!
My question is this - would it be possible to rewind a pair of Rickenbacker "toaster"-style pickups to make them sound more like Gretsch Filtertrons? I love the sound of the Filtertrons, but am not very keen on their appearance. The perfect solution for me would involve something which sounds like a Filtertron, beneath a toaster cover - and unfortunately, Filtertrons do not fit into toaster covers (I have tried!).

Are there any practical reasons why this could not be done? Would it be better to order a pair of pickups from a custom builder with the Filtertron sound, made to a size which will fit a toaster cover?

Thankyou in advance for your help!

[Peter Naglitsch]

Welcome to the forum

The Toasters are single coil pickups, the Filtertrons are humbuckers. It is like asking if it is possible to rewind a stratocaster pickup to make it sound like a vintage PAF humbucker. It is not possible

There might be ways to make something from scratch that are much more like a Filtertron and still fit into a toaster cover. It will probably involve manufacturing custom parts or heavily modify existing parts. And you need to have the two rows of screws either under the cover (increasing the string-pickup distance thus decreasing output) or drill for the screws so that the pickup can be slightly raised (meaning you have something that more or less look like a Filtertron). However this modified version of a Filtertron it will be just that; an approximation. It will not be a Filtertron and thus it will not sound exactly like a Filtertron. To be honest, I think this is a case of design over sound. If you like the sound of Filtertrons, go with Filtertrons. If you like the sound of toasters, go with toasters. There are no shortcuts to sound...

[Actual Bigfoot]

Thankyou very much for the welcome and for your reply - nice to meet you!

You make an excellent point about the Filtertron being a humbucker (and this is exactly the type of insight which I hoped to get from this forum - thankyou!). Actually, Gretsch's single-coil designs, the HiLotron and the Dynasonic, are well within the tonal range which I am looking for, and I would be perfectly happy with a pickup which sounded like either of those. I suppose that the question can be refined now to - is it possible to build a pickup in the form factor of a toaster, with the tone of a HiLotron or a Dynasonic?

Refining the question is a definite step forward - thanks!

[David Schwab]

is it possible to build a pickup in the form factor of a toaster, with the tone of a HiLotron or a Dynasonic?

Sure, the covers are very similar in size.

For instance, look at this import pickup from Guitar Fetish;

GFS NYII Surface Mount Handmade Alnico Pickup



In this case it's wound to sound like a P-90, but you can see the similarity between a Rick and DeArmond pickup.

Then all you need is a toaster cover.

They also have a small Filter'tron size pickup which is very similar to a toaster:



So that shows it's not hard to do.

[Peter Naglitsch]

Actually, Gretsch's single-coil designs, the HiLotron and the Dynasonic, are well within the tonal range which I am looking for, and I would be perfectly happy with a pickup which sounded like either of those. I suppose that the question can be refined now to - is it possible to build a pickup in the form factor of a toaster, with the tone of a HiLotron or a Dynasonic?

A Dynasonic can for sure be made to fit in a toaster cover as they are quite similar in size. However IMHO a Dynasonic doesn't sound anything like a Filtertron so I must say that I don't get what you really need. You don't want the Toasters and if you cant have the Filtertrons then the Dynasonic or the Hilotron would be just as fine. It sounds more like "I want anything Gretschy" to me and that doesn't really make sense. By no mean aiming to offend you here... Maybe you should just go out and get yourself a White Penguin

I have made a Dynasonic replica with adjustable rod magnets fit into exactly one of the GFS "covers". A nightmare. And if you need to fit it in a specific cover that is different from an original Dynasonic cover it might mean that you need to have a custom pickup body made. Have a look at this:

There are a lot of parts here... My initial idea when reading your last post is to use the bobbin from the pickups David linked to (the P90-ish thing) and adjust it to fit a Toaster cover. Then exchange the steel poles with magnets and you have a really nice pickup (I call my version of that DynaMites)

However, what you end up with is something that is more or less a Toaster. Something you have already dismissed!

Hilotrons are also to wide to be easily adapted to a Toaster form:
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...ation/c182.jpg
That is, more or less, one coil from a Filtertron, combined with a Filtertron magnet but mounted like a sidewinder (right fellas?). That would be as hard to fit as it has the same width as an original Filtertron.

They also have a small Filter'tron size pickup which is very similar to a toaster:

So that shows it's not hard to do.

Well... the GFS mini HB/Filtertronish pickup is 1.125" wide and the Toaster cover I have access to is ~1" wide (actually a tad less). That means, as mentioned before, thinner bobbins and a special made magnet to fit in a Toaster cover. And a sound that will not be the same as a Filtertron. It can be done, but it will be costly and it will not sound exactly like a Filtertron

[rocket]

At TVJones you can have most PUs, including the filtertrons in "DeArmond-Mount" which seems to be similar to the toasters. you can find the dimensions here: http://tvjones.com/site/wp-content/u...eArmond-WP.pdf

[Peter Naglitsch]

Good call. However the base measurements of DeArmonds (prior measurements are the actual pickup space inside the covers) are 3.38x1.59 (LxW), my Toasters are 3.52x1.48. Not a very big difference. Still I don't think that it will fit inside a Toaster cover. It does on the other hand show that you can do whatever you want. , Still you need to source special magnets and modify the traditional Filtertron bobbins to fit in a toaster cover. Beginning to sound like a bad record here (y'know the old big black slow-rotating once, common in ye good ole days) but those modifications will make the pickups sound less like "the real deal".

[David Schwab]

Hilotrons are also to wide to be easily adapted to a Toaster form:
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...ation/c182.jpg
That is, more or less, one coil from a Filtertron, combined with a Filtertron magnet but mounted like a sidewinder (right fellas?). That would be as hard to fit as it has the same width as an original Filtertron.

No, on a sidewinder the bobbin is on its side, like on the first Gibson EB pickup.



But the HiLo'tron is an odd pickup anyway you look at it.

[Actual Bigfoot]

Wow - thankyou so much for all of the replies, and the lengths which you have gone to in clarifying the situation for me. You are extremely generous with your time and your knowledge, and I truly appreciate it!

Looks like I will need to think about the various options and make a few decisions... I love working through questions of this type, and there is always a lot to be learnt in the process!

Cheers, everyone!