What the...how long was I asleep? Pickup output ratings

[Leo_Gnardo]

A buddy of mine is a wine-writer (i.e., he writes about wine, not ON wine or WITH wine) - a REAL "cork sniffer". Some years ago, he published a book that explained the meaning of all the various wine-tasting terms, and provided concrete reference points for all the terms included. We really need something like that for gear. I can't begin to count the number of times I read a gear review and I still have no idea about what something sounds like.

HA! Many's the time I've compared gear reviews to wine reviews. Up to a point the language is sufficient, but really can't fully describe the experience. You have to hear it, play it, taste it to really find out.

As to Bartolini's test method - good try Bartolini - at least it gave some sort of measuring stick. What's not included is distance from string to pickup. As most of us have found out, volume and tone can be seriously affected with only a couple millimeters change in distance. Then . . . there's the magnetic properties of the guitar strings. Lots of variation there too.

[David Schwab]

As to Bartolini's test method - good try Bartolini - at least it gave some sort of measuring stick. What's not included is distance from string to pickup. As most of us have found out, volume and tone can be seriously affected with only a couple millimeters change in distance. Then . . . there's the magnetic properties of the guitar strings. Lots of variation there too.

Actually they were very detailed about how it was done, including how long the string was and how far from the pickup it was. I have an old catalog from the 70s around here somewhere. I'll see if I can locate it and scan that page. In the same catalog they listed the outputs of various pickups as tested on the ams machine.

[ken]

I think this guy could give us all the useable descriptions. Electric Guitars : Build an Electric Guitar Pickup - YouTube

I wonder if these two are related? WARNING - Possibly NSFW
How to Graduate from Art School (Animation) - YouTube

I'm all for good repeatable testing methods that really reflect actual performance, and I believe that could really help the player choose the best pickup for their needs.

ken

[SonnyW]

I have a couple of comments to add to this discussion. First, about the tone descriptive (cork sniffer) vocabulary, there are a few respectable references that audiophiles use to attempt to describe these terms as they are commonly used, and with some attempt to make them a little more precise. The best of these descriptions often will make reference to frequencies, fundamentals, relations of harmonics and overtones to the fundamental, etc. in attempting to be more precise in defining the particular tonal nuance they describe. Here is one example I chose because at the bottom of this link they list links to many of the other ones. Describing Sound A Glossary - Head-Fi.org Community Long ago, I made my own version of this kind of a tone descriptor glossary and put it in the reference section of my website, thinking it might help when working with customers on their requests for custom designed pickups. It hasn't really seen much use when working with customers, but putting it together has at least helped me to be consistent and a bit more precise with my own terminology.

On methods for measuring output, I do provide all my customers a data sheet specific to their individual custom pickup that includes output measured in millivolts. I don't claim that my way is best, it is just what I use, and it has turned out to be quite useful to me and in working with customers, because I can give them a measured reference that nearly all of them can relate to. When I built my output test set, I used a small amplifier from a powered computer speaker set to amplify the output from a signal generator to drive a coil that I place in contact with the pickup. My driver coil is about a hundred turns of #30 magnet wire. This use of a driver coil is one of many ways that output measurements can be done. Originally I had intended this measurement to be strictly for my own reference, but later I decided to include it on the pickup data sheet. I had read somewhere that a typical stratocaster pickup's output is in the neighborhood of 100 millivolts. So, I selected a typical imported cheap strat type pickup that measured about 100 millivolts on my test set. Then I installed a ten turn pot on the gain control of the amplifier so I could easily calibrate my test set to get that specific pickup to measure exactly 100 millivolts when I fed a 1046 Hz signal to the test set. I picked 1046 because it is the C6 note, and it is close to 1 kHz. My scope has a frequency meter so I can set the signal generator fairly precisely. I made a base of wood for the driver coil that has holes in it that will line up in the same place every time relative to the magnets on a strat pickup, but it has turned out to be useful on most any kind of pickup. I always use the same driver coil and the same calibration pickup. For humbuckers, I measure each coil separately directly over the poles and average the results. I made a quick connect fixture for all the probes. The test takes maybe five or so minutes.

To measure a pickup' output, I hook my scope's multimeter to the calibration pickup's leads, put the driver coil in place, adjust my test set to read 100 mv (AC RMS) on the calibration pickup, then measure the customers pickup exactly the same way, then check again to the calibration pickup to make sure nothing has changed. Long story here, but now when I show my customer, say a humbucker that has an output of 190mv, I can tell him it means his pickup has 1.9 times more output than a Squier strat. Everyone so far has been able to relate to that.

[John_H]

I think this guy could give us all the useable descriptions. Electric Guitars : Build an Electric Guitar Pickup - YouTube

That's f'kn hilarious.

In reference to pickup output ratings, it might excite some people into thinking that now they can buy the perfect pickup based on numbers that don't mean much.

I think I'm more for the Mike Ditka Approach to cork sniffery. My pickups are made from good stuff, and they don't sound like shit.

[RedHouse]

"My, that pickup sounds downright stanky!"

I hear Rev. BillyG get "the stank" when he "spanks the plank"!

[ken]

I hear Rev. BillyG get "the stank" when he "spanks the plank"!

Ewwwwwwww... I hope you washed your hands after you typed that :P

In reference to pickup output ratings, it might excite some people into thinking that now they can buy the perfect pickup based on numbers that don't mean much.

That is what I was trying to say before. The only thing funnier is when someone gets the descriptors totally wrong, like the customer I had once that wanted their pickups magnetized to 'exactly 27 and 1/2 gauss' on the lead pickup, and '22 gauss' on the rhythm. The best part was when he told me I didn't know how to measure gauss... after I demonstrated my RFL industrial gaussmeter for him.

I like SonnyW's measuring method. It's repeatable, explainable, and best of all it's in terms even the noobiest noob can understand.

ken

[salvarsan]

Regarding cork sniffage:

It's something you do/did with bottles corked prior to the general practice of scientifically-informed winemaking, roughly anything before 1990.

By smelling the cork, an unpleasant odor told you if there was excessive oxidation, brettanomyces yeast, or fungal trichloroanisole contamination -- the most common defects. Since they're all pretty stinky (stale wine, barnyard, moldy newspaper), it's easy to decide whether or not you want the wine under your nose.

Unfortunately, there aren't any indicative tests to tell you that a pickup sounds like shit before you mount it on the guitar.

[wizard333]

It's been there a long time.

I don't think DiMarzio cares whether you can compare them to Duncans, but if you're curious there are any number of forums where you can ask about relative outputs. In terms of comparing DiMarzios to DiMarzios, it's much, much, much more useful than DCR numbers, which Duncan proxied as "output" for years, something that to this day causes most laymen to believe DCR = output. That's utter hogwash, because volts are what drives your amp's input stage, not resistance. Solder a 1M resistor to the input of your amp. How loud is it? Now hit the input stage with 1VAC at 1khz. Now how loud it is? Exactly. DCR means F all as an output comparison unless you *KNOW* the wire type, magnet type and strength, etc., are all held constant, which they hardly ever are when comparing two pickups.

There are still problems with it, because relative frequency responses can lead to subjective assessments of "output" being different than what a VOM sees, but it is infinitely better than DCR.

As far as methodology, if you call them they'll tell you. Iirc, they hit an x gauge G string with an y gauge pick z number of times and take the average.