Wire insulation in vintage filtertrons? + how to "de-wax" a coil?

[freefrog]

Does anyone know what is the wire insulation used in vintage Gretsch 'tron's?

Thx in advance!

[big_teee]

We discussed the dewaxing on another thread.
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t36247/
We came up with using a heated liquid wax or oil.
Liquid paraffin oil or liquid lamp fuel.
That will dilute the paraffin, and when you take the pickup from the hot lamp fuel, squeeze the residue in a paper towel.
That should allow you to unroll it?
GL,
T

[freefrog]

We discussed the dewaxing on another thread.
We came up with using a heated liquid wax or oil.
Liquid paraffin oil or liquid lamp fuel.
That will dilute the paraffin, and when you take the pickup from the hot lamp fuel, squeeze the residue in a paper towel.
That should allow you to unroll it?
GL,
T

Thanks a lot for your answer and sorry to have created a second topic on the same question: I hadn't seen the other one. I'll try to edit mine accordingly. :-)

EDIT - Done: I've corrected my tittle and question. but I thank you again for your precious help!

[Jim Darr]

My notes show 44 gauge poly.

[jonson]

They were low power pick-ups the vintage ones and only about 4.2k with 42 poly and ceramic mags.

[Jim Darr]

50s & 60s originals had a thick ALNICO with a low turn count on each coil...ceramics came much later (early in the 70s).

[freefrog]

Thx gents! :-)

Is it 44 or 42 AWG? I've read 43AWG elsewhere... :-))

[Jim Darr]

Based on a 1960s pickup, my notes say OD on magnet wire was .00215. This is consistent with Single Build Poly 44 AWG. I have read the same things about other sizes being used as well and would suspect that different wire gauges may have been used in different periods. The unit in my notes was not wax potted. I can only report on what I've personally seen.

I do have a reissue that I can measure for comparison in the near future. I also have a early 60s Hi-LoTron, but am hesitant to take it apart as the black tape Gretsch used back then seems to be very aggressive and, from my experience, can break the magnet wire very easily during tape removal.

I'd be interested to hear what others have seen on these pickups.

[freefrog]

Based on a 1960s pickup, my notes say OD on magnet wire was .00215. This is consistent with Single Build Poly 44 AWG. I have read the same things about other sizes being used as well and would suspect that different wire gauges may have been used in different periods. The unit in my notes was not wax potted. I can only report on what I've personally seen.

I do have a reissue that I can measure for comparison in the near future. I also have a early 60s Hi-LoTron, but am hesitant to take it apart as the black tape Gretsch used back then seems to be very aggressive and, from my experience, can break the magnet wire very easily during tape removal.

I'd be interested to hear what others have seen on this pickups.

Extremely interesting. Thank you!

[Jim Darr]

Extremely interesting. Thank you!

You are welcome.

After doing some research today, I suspect 42 to 43 may have been the norm and my experience mentioned earlier might have been really from a later model. I based the date on what the guy I got it from said and didn't see any reason to doubt it when it arrived. I am now thinking it might have been really from the 70s. Early examples measured around 4K to 4.5K ohms for a completed pickup. So, my example was likely from a much later model. I can say it appeared to be machine wound. Does anybody know what type of winders Gretsch used back then?

My Hi-LoTron from the early 60s measured at just over 3K ohms on the Fluke. Both subject coils, as a comparison, were filled to about the same point on the bobbin. I look at overall bobbin coil width and length as a relative measurement and take wire diameter readings with a micrometer only when I safely can. So, I know that my Hi-Lo example had thicker wire since it measured a little over 1K ohms lower than one coil of the FilterTron.

Any other input would be greatly appreciated as I have only seen a handful (maybe 10-12) of these pickups and only mic'd the wire on a few of them.

[Jim Shine]

I am now thinking it might have been really from the 70s. Early examples measured around 4K to 4.5K ohms for a completed pickup. So, my example was likely from a much later model. I can say it appeared to be machine wound. Does anybody know what type of winders Gretsch used back then?

Not sure if it is relevant, but there used to be a huge surplus of Gretsch parts, mostly from the 70's floating around. I can't remember the guys name, but there was a guy (now deceased) that had trailer full loads of old NOS parts for sale. I do believe at some point he began completing raw parts, like pickups, into finished assemblies to restock inventory. So if you encounter 70's spec pickups that are loose, be aware that they could be factory, or they could have been completed 20 years later.

[Jim Darr]

Jim,

I think you are referring to Duke Kramer. I actually got a replacement guitar back from him a long time ago when I was doing a Double Anniversary restoration. Nice guy and a big help to me for that restoration project. If I remember correctly he was in Ohio. Sorry he passed.

The FilterTron pickup coils I was mentioning came off of eBay a while back and the bobbins seemed identical to the other coils I've seen in 60s FilterTrons and Hi-Lo Trons. White bobbins with all the right dimensions etc. Seemed like a factory wind...but who knows. I do understand that in the 70s they were winding a much hotter pickup with smaller wire. I now think this was one of them.

Thanks for the input.

Jim

[Jim Shine]

Yes, it was Duke Kramer (thanks!). He had lots of wound and unwound factory bobbins. I bought wound coils from him a few times. Later ones had something about them that looked different. Not the bobbins, but the wire or the materials (it has been a long time). But I saw that with a lot of his stuff. As time progressed it appeared that many parts were either being completed to be sold, or remanufactured. I was most suspect of the acrylic pickguards and pickup rings. Earlier ones were dead on, then the paint starting looking blotchy and the silk screen was kind of fuzzy. But it also could very well have been a case where he sold the best stuff first and at the end it was the B stock flaws.

[Jim Darr]

Does anybody know that type of winding machines Gretsch used back in the 60s and 70s?