I smell BS. Fibonacci??

[WolfeMacleod]

Article:
Deacci Unveils Pure Vintage Line of Pickups | 2014-12-08 | Premier Guitar


Fibonacciwhaaaaaat????
I thunk on it a bit, and considered perhaps he is using Fib numbers to determine ratios of number of turns, turns per layer, and actual number of layers...

Perhaps he wound one coil with 6765 turns of wire (which is an awful lot of 42awg to squeeze onto an HB bobbin, and probably cant' be done...6000 turns is hard enough)
Perhaps that coil has 55 turns per layer, and 1597 total layers. All are Fib numbers.

4181 turns? wait.. too low....


Probably not.

I wonder if he's on this board and would care to explain.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Fibonacciwhaaaaaat????
I thunk on it a bit, and considered perhaps he is using Fib numbers to determine ratios of number of turns, turns per layer, and actual number of layers...

Well Cardas has their "golden section" wire, oops I mean "interconnect", which they flog to well heeled hi fi nuts who dimly remember something about ancient geometry. How "special" it makes the wire sonically, you'll have to ask the emperors-with-new-(expensive)-clothes that bought 'em.

How this outfit uses Fibonacci series to dictate pickup design one can only guess. They should sound mathematically correct when playing Pythagorean tone series, ya think? My ears cannot live another second without it.

[madzub]

from their website:

"...taking inspiration from the mathematical sequences that underpin so much of nature’s seemingly random distribution, from flower petals to seed heads, Deacci created a winding distribution methodology based on the Fibonacci sequence..."

so it's about the winding distribution. perhaps the golden ratio can be used to determine an ideal scatter pattern so as to minimize capacitance by having no two wraps perfectly side by side but still achieving a dense coil, the way leaves are distributed on a plant so that each leaf can get some sunshine without being blocked by another directly above it, and the way the seeds of a sunflower are packed together as densely as possible. but probably it's just marketing bs.

[David King]

You only need a tiny grain of "truthiness" to appeal to some aspect of the modern consumer's brain.
For all the shysters out there making wild unprovable claims about the most mundane products there are brilliant craftspersons making fabulous works who couldn't sell them to save their lives. Buyers want a "story" and they want to think that they are smarter and more discriminating than the average. Play to those facets and make a 1/2 way decent product and you will succeed in spades.

[Mark Hammer]

From reading the "article", it would seem the builder simply found an algorithm for producing - but more importantly, REproducing - a sound he liked. If it's an orderly series, that becomes a whole lot easier to program into a mechanized microcontroller winder of some sort. For my part, the Fibonacci thing is simply a number series and nothing more magical than that. Could have been any of a variety of number series, but that one was available and worked out fine.

As always, don't count on every builder to also provide sensible straightforward ad copy. Some can do it, but some head straight for the hyperbole and voodoo handwaving like its a fire exit. And then we have magazine copy.

[big_teee]

I'll try to keep an open mind!
Probably just Razzle Dazzle to sell 50 + Year Old style Pickups, and Technology at high prices.

[copperheadroads]

Just another sales tactic to sale pickups
plus the fresh name ......... pumping out manure ....

[WolfeMacleod]

Just another sales tactic to sale pickups
plus the fresh name ......... pumping out manure ....

Used to be RD Pickups, from a little digging I did. Website started in 2009. Somewhere down the line a name changed happened.

Here's something from as recent as 2012. If he's still using the mechanical winder...algorithm my butt. It would take some serious CNC programming to come up with anything honest.

[tedmich]

conforming to Fibonacci numbers is some component of the pickups (resistance? mohs? radial wind? axial wind? diameter in mm or megaangstoms or attoparsecs?) undoubtedly gives a pickup much closer to those found in nature, which gives us the Fibonacci numbers... sounds more natural and organic... He implies that manufacturing variability disappeared when he adopted a static design parameter: "we couldn't get 2.0 inches to work 1 time out of ten but 2.33 inches gave us 100% repeatability" LMAO

[Possum]

I thought I had seen and heard it all, I was wrong. He's doing about 300% more work than he needs to do, yikes! Vintage PAF with poly wire? If he is using mathematical ratios in his winding, he's not hand winding, that would be impossible. I dunno, this sounds like magical thinking, I think the reality is that when he switched from hand winding humbuckers to using an automated method, his mistook his numbers theory for the fact that machine wound buckers will always get much better clarity than hand winding will.

[Sock Puppet]

Better take a patent out pronto on my PI based circular magnets - there's a very precise ratio of the circumference to the diameter that's difficult to achieve.

[deacci]

I thought I had seen and heard it all, I was wrong. He's doing about 300% more work than he needs to do, yikes! Vintage PAF with poly wire? If he is using mathematical ratios in his winding, he's not hand winding, that would be impossible. I dunno, this sounds like magical thinking, I think the reality is that when he switched from hand winding humbuckers to using an automated method, his mistook his numbers theory for the fact that machine wound buckers will always get much better clarity than hand winding will.

possum Glad to know that one, ill get my boot off the acelerator then, wondered why everything was happening too fast .

You guys haven't heard much about me as I have spent much of this last 5 years developing. The old hand winder in the video went to pasture in august 2013 but I have been developing my version of precision machine winding since early 2012 and it uses CNC technology, servo based electronic tensioning, and software that took a very long time to develop along with a patent process that nearly bankrupted me before I pulled the plug.

In many ways the fibonacci part was easy, controlling a precision winder to make it do the softwares bidding was more challenging. E.g ensuring position errors that build up when changing winding density or TPL within a single bobbin don't cause the wire feeder head to drift out of alignment and wind bobbins of all sorts of shapes required significant head scratching.

The real piece of work though was mapping how the 8 different fibonacci base patterns and 7 variables i use to control how a bobbin winding patern is generated affect tone and frequency response. I burned many kilos of wire on that one and there is still more to do. Fibonacci on its own doesnt grant me a pass to create a good pickup, but it does offer an underlying constant that works effectively whether i am winding a humbucker or a single coil. I tried lots of other ways to achieve this on a machine wind, fibonacci was far from the first. You still need to understand all the other things that hand and machine winders need to understand and master.

Call BS if you like, as long as i have right to reply its all good. I offer reasonably priced pickups with cast iron money back guarantees and good old fashioned customer service that treats everyone with respect.

More to the point.... im having fun doing it because so far my customers seem very happy indeed

Declan Larkin
Deacci Ltd

[big_teee]

Like I said earlier, I'll try to keep an open mind?
But, IMO so far it just sounds like more Razzle Dazzle, & snake oil!
Saying You use special Algorhythms, for variable patterns, would have been fine.
We have lots of guys here with CNC winders that do that.
The Snake oil IMO, is with using the term fibonacci, to describe computer code.
How about the da vinci code, whille you're at it?
That too, would make a good Advertising Hook!
I reserve the right to change my opinion at a later date!
GL,
T

[David King]

Welcome to the forum Declan, I'm glad you took it upon yourself to stop and in present your case. We are a very opinionated lot and many of us spend more time jabbering than we do winding. We have a bit of an echo chamber here and we tend to gather around what we consider to be accepted truths as interpreted by us. Like any forum there's some good and some bad and many don't have an opinion one way or the other. We do like to contemplate the novel from time to time and if it's not immediately apparent to us what's going on in an unfamiliar idea we will invariably dump on it because that is the natural thing to do. Don't take it personally. Don't give away your secrets just be prepared for a lot of questions.

[deacci]

Welcome to the forum Declan, I'm glad you took it upon yourself to stop and in present your case. We are a very opinionated lot and many of us spend more time jabbering than we do winding. We have a bit of an echo chamber here and we tend to gather around what we consider to be accepted truths as interpreted by us. Like any forum there's some good and some bad and many don't have an opinion one way or the other. We do like to contemplate the novel from time to time and if it's not immediately apparent to us what's going on in an unfamiliar idea we will invariably dump on it because that is the natural thing to do. Don't take it personally. Don't give away your secrets just be prepared for a lot of questions.

Thanks David for the welcome, you know, in your position i would probably be as skeptical as anyone on here, so nothing taken personally at all.

Anyway, i cant give away my secrets, they cost to bloody much to acquire, so i will just have to put up with the flak for that, in any case, everyone knows there is no such thing as bad publicity so with my shield that is impervious to criticism, fire away, i will answer whatever i can but doubt it will fully satisfy the non believers.

Declan
Deacci Ltd