Tuned aperture pickups

[12xu]

The differences between a strat and a p90 are quite vast...I would suggest the shape of the coil is only part of the story.

If the coil shape was the difference, hum sized 90's would sound nothing like a p90....myself, I'd argue they are quite different, but not the difference between a strat and a p90.

If the theory was correct, then hum sized and strat sized p90's wouldn't even be in the same ballpark...you get what I'm trying to say.

[ElysianGuitars]

I've never thought hum sized P90s sounded like P90s But I'm probably spoiled by the Lollar dogear P90s in one of my guitars.

All I've tried to do here is relay the kinds of things I've heard with my own ears from the very pickups I spend every day making, don't really have much else to say on this one. Not really interested in fighting with people.

[12xu]

I've never thought hum sized P90s sounded like P90s But I'm probably spoiled by the Lollar dogear P90s in one of my guitars.

All I've tried to do here is relay the kinds of things I've heard with my own ears from the very pickups I spend every day making, don't really have much else to say on this one.

I don't think they're the same at all, but it's not a planetary difference....grab a set of p94's, you can tell what they're going for, even in blind listening.

If you dig it and can hear a difference, that's all that counts.

The thing that might get you some scrutiny is the patent part and the advert speak...that's all.

i still haven't figured out how you could patent it though.

[ElysianGuitars]

Carvin has a patent on using Torx bolts in their pickups, you can literally patent anything

[Peter Naglitsch]

Each sound clip on Soundcloud is clearly labeled "Config X."

Yeah, overly distorted, POD-processed clips were labeled. But those sounded more or less the same to me, especially when drowned in the backing tracks and effects. The clips you made yourself was much more interesting but no info on configurations used and no info om amps/cabinets/microphones used (or POD?). So sorry, no not enough info to make a decent assessment.

[Peter Naglitsch]

The differences between a strat and a p90 are quite vast...I would suggest the shape of the coil is only part of the story.

If the coil shape was the difference, hum sized 90's would sound nothing like a p90....myself, I'd argue they are quite different, but not the difference between a strat and a p90.

If the theory was correct, then hum sized and strat sized p90's wouldn't even be in the same ballpark...you get what I'm trying to say.

The best comparison is maybe between a P90 and a Jazzmaster pickup. The coils are quite similar in size and the main difference is the magnetic configuration. And the difference in sound!

[12xu]

The best comparison is maybe between a P90 and a Jazzmaster pickup. The coils are quite similar in size and the main difference is the magnetic configuration. And the difference in sound!

Much better...thanks.

[Mike Sulzer]

Aperture doesn't only have to be applied to the magnetic field. The coil width is an aperture. You widen the coil width, you add warmth to the tone. P90s have a much wider coil width than Fender style single coils. The winds obviously make a difference as well, but that's not the only story, is it?

I see. So aperture as you define it does not need to have anything to do with the area over which a pickup senses signal. It is just another name for width!

On the other hand, pole pieces matter. Steel and Alnico have different losses from eddy currents. The effect is audible and measurable, and it is another reason it is difficult to justify a claim that P90 and strat pickups sound different mainly because of differences in the coil width.

[bbsailor]

Aperture doesn't only have to be applied to the magnetic field. The coil width is an aperture. You widen the coil width, you add warmth to the tone. P90s have a much wider coil width than Fender style single coils. The winds obviously make a difference as well, but that's not the only story, is it?

See this web link for a good discussion about aperature and other tone differences. P90 pickups -vs- P90 Humbucker sized pickups ~ ~ ~ & other things too !!! - Guitar Discussions on The Fretboard

Pickups sound different due to a variety of interactions between these key elements.
1. coil turns number (inductance) and wire size (including wire packing)
2. coil shape: short wide vs. tall thin
3. magnet field shape (focused or spread) and intensity
4. eddy currents in nearby metal but also affects inductance and magnetic field shape

Here is a thought experiment. Place a ferrous metal plate beneath a Strat SC pickup. The sound changes but why? Here is my take on this.
1. the inductance changes
2. eddy currents are induced into the metal plate
3. The magnetic field and shape are altered
4. The outer part of the coil has a slightly higher amount of voltage induced in these windings.

All of these things collectively contribute to the sound difference. In some cases you can't change one without affecting the others. This seems to be the collective wisdom among pickup makers.

Joseph J. Rogowski

[Mike Sulzer]

See this web link for a good discussion about aperature and other tone differences. P90 pickups -vs- P90 Humbucker sized pickups ~ ~ ~ & other things too !!! - Guitar Discussions on The Fretboard

Pickups sound different due to a variety of interactions between these key elements.
1. coil turns number (inductance) and wire size (including wire packing)
2. coil shape: short wide vs. tall thin
3. magnet field shape (focused or spread) and intensity
4. eddy currents in nearby metal but also affects inductance and magnetic field shape

Here is a thought experiment. Place a ferrous metal plate beneath a Strat SC pickup. The sound changes but why? Here is my take on this.
1. the inductance changes
2. eddy currents are induced into the metal plate
3. The magnetic field and shape are altered
4. The outer part of the coil has a slightly higher amount of voltage induced in these windings.

All of these things collectively contribute to the sound difference. In some cases you can't change one without affecting the others. This seems to be the collective wisdom among pickup makers.

Joseph J. Rogowski

No need just to think about it! Part of this is easy to measure. Actually, steel on the back of a pickup is not a big effect; inside is another matter. The steel used here is 1/8" thick, 1" wide, longer than the pickup. The Extech measures 2.602 H, no steel, 2.734 H with steel (at 120 Hz). The difference between steel slugs and Alnico magnets in the coil would be most of a Henry, if I remember correctly.

A more detailed look at the changes as a function of frequency can be seen on the two attached plots from my pickup analysis instrument. The differences are small. My instrument is a bit out of cal; inductance should agree with the Extech to better than two places.


scNoSteel.pdf


scSteel.pdf

[fieldwrangler]

Haven't done this in awhile but I recall that I've seen a significant increase in gauss readings at my usual measuring point (about 3/32" above the mag tops) after throwing a piece of steel onto the back of single coil Fender-type pickups.

In fact, last year someone sent me a '57 Tele that was hands down the best solidbody guitar I've ever played. Just sitting on the couch without plugging in would result in denting my workday by a good hour; I just couldn't stop playing the thing. Anyhow, he really liked the bridge pickup but had sent the neck unit to 2 other pickup guys (who will remain nameless) and didn't like either of their rewind solutions to his idea of making it capable of "keeping up with the bridge pickup."

I ended up rewinding it pretty conventionally, wax potting pretty deeply, charging the mags fully and still it wasn't quite making it. The hunk of steel on the back, however, really pushed it to where it was definitely making it for me. The customer was also really, really happy.

[Mike Sulzer]

About 17%, typically. It is well known that if you have two things that sound the same, but play them at different levels, the louder one always sounds better. Even more true for electric guitars if you are playing somewhat non-linear. So be careful with listening tests.

Haven't done this in awhile but I recall that I've seen a significant increase in gauss readings at my usual measuring point (about 3/32" above the mag tops) after throwing a piece of steel onto the back of single coil Fender-type pickups.

In fact, last year someone sent me a '57 Tele that was hands down the best solidbody guitar I've ever played. Just sitting on the couch without plugging in would result in denting my workday by a good hour; I just couldn't stop playing the thing. Anyhow, he really liked the bridge pickup but had sent the neck unit to 2 other pickup guys (who will remain nameless) and didn't like either of their rewind solutions to his idea of making it capable of "keeping up with the bridge pickup."

I ended up rewinding it pretty conventionally, wax potting pretty deeply, charging the mags fully and still it wasn't quite making it. The hunk of steel on the back, however, really pushed it to where it was definitely making it for me. The customer was also really, really happy.

[fieldwrangler]

Yup, louder is almost always better in this arena. In this case, what we accomplished was to create sufficient level to "keep up" with the bridge pickup without seeming too close to the strings. The slight inductance increase was just fine in this instance.

Also, it's just such an easy way to buy some output that I'm keeping it in my trick bag indefinitely.