To hear the laminations of their women

[Dave Kerr]

Sorry for the bad pun, I'm on a Conan kick lately.

Laminating steel shim stock (.015", grade somewhere between 1008 and 1012 - McMaster #9011K29) and fishpaper for a bass blade humbucker - any suggestions for best bonding results? Contact cement is the direction I'm leaning towards.

I've got one of those cheapo nickel-silver plating setups disucussed a while back - would it make sense to plate the shim stock first, then laminate? I'll be shooting for a final thickness of about 1/8", blade approx 3 1/4" by 7/8" or so, if that matters.

[jonson]

nickle plate first then abraid lightly inner faces. contact will work but structural acrylic obtainable in tubes like epoxy will bond and never let you down. A gun to fire both tubes to get even mix is handy but just use a piece of dowel to squeeze out the amounts you need. You can hang a B52 from a barn roof with this stuff.

[Rosewood]

Dave, why fish paper?

[Dave Kerr]

Jonson, thanks - the epoxy does make more sense. I've got some left over from a golf club assembly project a little while back.

Rosewood, it'd act as an electric insulator - the thought is to cut down on eddy current formation. Then again, maybe I'm off base. Cheap and easy enough to try.

[NightWinder]

Why not go with an 1/8? Also remember that if M .c can't tell the exact grade of steel, there will a control issue to get the same thing? Epoxy....Bullitproof it!!

[Dave Kerr]

There was talk a while back about there being a benefit to using laminated steel in a blade in hopes of reducing eddy currents - the EE types seemed to think it a good idea. Perhaps I'm talking about laminating in the wrong direction, though - as in, each lamination should be assembled much like a tall, narrow slice of bread in a loaf? I guess the fish paper could serve as the peanut butter (or Marmite, for the EU members).

[jonson]

Dave I'm not talking epoxy, This stuff mixes and looks much like epoxy. Structural acrylic is a different animal. the usual epoxies are long cure, rapid and instant. long cure a pain in the bum, rapid usually remains slightly soft and instant is too brittle. Good structural acrylic is no more expensive and comes as either a brush on to one part and apply glue to other or as a 2 part mix. Sets in about 10 mins and rock hard in 60mins. Space age stuff that even some carmakers glue thier chassies together now instead of welding them and guys near me glue in replacement steel wheelarches and half door panels so cutting any weld distortion. This and polyurethane glues are probably the main ones in my arsenal now for strength and speed and the old waterproof bit. Pva and formaldahyde glues have been superceeded.

[NightWinder]

Oh, ok. Understood now, Steve. Bit of a difference there: ) Sent you an e-mail back too. Nice to see ya.

[jonson]

Hi Wade yeah it's a glue all you guys should check out. Will get back to you over the weekend. Dave if you can get hold localy of some Superglue accelerator (comes in an areosol) and spray your fishpaper and let it dry apply superglue to the steel then the bond will be permanent and totaly instant. Those of you using contact adhesives waterbased types like 3m fastbond cut all your enviromental probs and far easier to apply.

[Dave Kerr]

Steve, great stuff, thanks. I'm just a destitute hobbyist, and have a bunch of superglue already, I'll check for the accelerator.

That other stuff sounds like it should have been used instead of epoxy in our little Boston area failed tunnel ceiling.

[jonson]

Friend of mine slapped a load on a steel plate and wedged it on a concrete ceiling next day he hung a bloody great tv monitor on it and its still there 1 year down the line. I use it for much smaller projects.

[Joe Gwinn]

That other stuff sounds like it should have been used instead of epoxy in our little Boston area failed tunnel ceiling.

The problem was that they used the fast stuff that stays slightly soft, and the bolts crept out over time. The overnight stuff would have worked ... if correctly mixed and installed.

[Joe Gwinn]

nickle plate first then abraid lightly inner faces. contact will work but structural acrylic obtainable in tubes like epoxy will bond and never let you down. A gun to fire both tubes to get even mix is handy but just use a piece of dowel to squeeze out the amounts you need. You can hang a B52 from a barn roof with this stuff.

What make and model of structural acrylic are you using?

[Joe Gwinn]

There was talk a while back about there being a benefit to using laminated steel in a blade in hopes of reducing eddy currents - the EE types seemed to think it a good idea. Perhaps I'm talking about laminating in the wrong direction, though - as in, each lamination should be assembled much like a tall, narrow slice of bread in a loaf? I guess the fish paper could serve as the peanut butter (or Marmite, for the EU members).

In a blade pickup, a three-ply blade would be three pieces of steel, each say 2" by 3/4" by 0.015", glued into an assembly with two sheets of paper. The 2" by 3/4" faces are glued together with the paper in between.

Eight-hour epoxy cures faster at 180 F, and gets far stronger.

The hard part is getting all the oil and grease off of things. Even a fingerprint will prevent adhesion.

[David Schwab]

There was talk a while back about there being a benefit to using laminated steel in a blade in hopes of reducing eddy currents - the EE types seemed to think it a good idea. Perhaps I'm talking about laminating in the wrong direction, though - as in, each lamination should be assembled much like a tall, narrow slice of bread in a loaf? I guess the fish paper could serve as the peanut butter (or Marmite, for the EU members).

Yes, laminated steel will cut down on eddy currents. It's made from thin sheets of steel with an insulating glue in between, so the layers are not in contact electrically with each other. An 1/8" laminated core will sound brighter than an 1/8" non laminated core. The idea is that the thickness of the steel contributes to eddy current loss, as does surface area. Thinner material will have less eddy currents (which is why foil doesn't matter as much).

The laminations are like a stack of paper, with each sheet a lamination.

If you are laminating the fishpaper to the blade, you don't really need that. Just make sure you tape the blade if the magnet wire will be in contact with it. Or where you putting it between the layers of steel? You could do that, or just get a thicker laminated sheet.

I guess you can have the blade plated, but if it shorts the layers together it's defeated the purpose. I haven't done it myself, so jonson might have more direct experience with the stuff, as far as plating goes.

I use epoxy to glue my coil forms together. I've been using the 5 minute stuff. They haven't fallen apart yet... but they are also in a cover.

I had to pull one apart once. I broke the flatwork trying.