T-Tops, Shaws or Both?

[Daver]

I was wondering if the brain trust here could help me ID my pickups. If this isn't the right place for this post, please move it.

I have a set of humbuckers that I've owned since they were new. They came out of my Flying V that I bought new in 80 or 81. I removed them almost immediately to put it some Duncan Distortions. LOL! There is a lot of confusing info on the net regarding the Shaw pickups. I'm wondering what I really have here.

The pickups have 6 hole baseplates with the metal patent number stamp. No ink stamp of any kind. They have 4 brass screws holding the bobbins on. The connecting wires are white and black. The magnet wire is gold colored. They have white spacers. The slugs don't quite touch the baseplate. The magnet is rough cast / pebble textured. They measure 7.5K and 7.7K. But, they both have black T-Top bobbins. No square holes. So what do you think? Thanks for any help you can provide.
Dave

[CheopisIV]

T-Bobbins = T-Tops. Shaws do not have the T as per the man himself.

[Jim Darr]

Here is some info I’ve gathered on Shaw’s - hope it helps!

In about 1980, Shaw retooled the bobbin molds putting the “circle” hole back in and removed the “T”.

Shaw used Alnico 2 although some say he switched to Unoriented Alnico 5 at some point. I don’t think he ever switched. Magnet examples I’ve seen were about .131” thick.

Shaw’s used poly wire and supposedly specified a slightly thicker coating on the wire. White plastic spacers instead of wooden ones. Shaw pickups had a patent number engraved/stamped on the base plate in addition, in many examples, an ink stamp. Most measured in the 7.1K to 7.5K ohm range. Gibson made other pickups in this ERA that visibility looked like Shaw P.A.F.s but had much higher DC resistance. I've seen both 6 & 12 hole baseplates.

The ink stamp can be a bit inconsistent and confusing. The first three digits of the ink stamp should tell you the type (137 for neck and 138 for bridge - some have 372 & 373, 498 & 499, etc as the leading numbers on the ink stamp). There is a date code following the first three indicating the month and year made. I've seen other examples without the ink stamp that would indicate they are indeed a Shaw pickup. There was a transition period in mid-1980 where date stamps may have been used. July XX, 1980, June XX, 1980 and March XX, 1980 are examples seen. However, some of these date stamped codes can be either late T-Tops or early Shaw’s. Check the bobbin tops to be sure which type pickups these are.

[Daver]

Thanks guys, but that still doesn't clear it up. I've read where T-Tops were indeed used on the Shaw's, sometimes only one on a pickup paired with a regular Shaw bobbin. The T-Tops supposedly didn't have white spacers or rough magnets, but mine do. Also T-Tops supposedly don't have the gold/copper colored magnet wire and mine do. Again, this is what I've read and it could be internet chum. So maybe they're T-Tops that used some Shaw parts or Shaw's that used T bobbins? '80 to '81 seems to be a very transitional time at Gibson with a lot of inconsistencies. At least I've owned them since new and know their pedigree. Thanks.

[Jim Darr]

Some of the late T-Tops did have white plastic spacers and copper colored wire. The real test for your pickups might rest in the magnet type (A2 v. A5). If it is A5, call it a T-Top. If it is A2, and a little thicker than Gibson's magnets at the time, maybe call it a "transitional T-Top".

Either way because of how the lead wires hookup on a Shaw P.A.F. versus a T-Top and no stamp on the back, if it were my pickup I'd call it a T-Top. A stretch might be to call it a 'transitional T-Top. It is commonly accepted to call them Shaws only if they don't have the T-Top marking on the bobbins and all the other Shaw P.A.F. characteristics are present.

But the real question is --- How do they sound?

[Daver]

Well they sound pretty darn cool! I don't have any intention of selling them, especially after all these years. I'm just really curious as to what they really are. The magnets are fatter. The slugs don't touch the baseplate. So it's like a Shaw with T-Tops and no stamp on the back. A T-Shaw? Thanks!

[Lyrebird Steve]

I have a number of late 1979 and early 1980 T-Tops on hand.

All have 2 white spacers and a rough cast magnet. The latest date I have is May 1980, but I have seen pics up to Aug 1980.

I've read that Tim Shaw always stamped his pickups ... and I've seen one that is designated as Aug 1980.

So, I'm puzzled more by the missing date/stamps. I think you have one of the last T-Tops made probably Sep-80.


I've just noticed that the wire colour on the 1980 model is a darker (more red) orange.

[CheopisIV]

You'll find the 1980 'Transitional T-Top' can also have a fat ceramic magnet in the bridge pickup. It sound the same as the thinner A5 variant except a lot more power which is a very nice change from the sometimes weak sounding A5 in the bridge.