PAF Buffet

[Mark Hammer]

The new issue of Vintage Guitar has a feature on the PAF pickup, including a reprinted interview with Seth Lover, and a synopsis of 51 different humbuckers on the market, including a number from folks who are regulars or semi-regulars here. It's not a shootout or review; just a brief one-paragraph description of the design/specs, provided by the manufacturer, from what I can tell.

Every type of Alnico and even ceramics. Evbery wire gauge from 41 to 44. Every possible DCR from the low 6ks to the mid 10ks.

And, sssshhhhhhhh, don't tell Larry....even a pickup with two creme bobbins.

The best is a comment that Seth Lover makes in the interview: "When we finally were granted our patent, we changed the sticker to one with a patent number, but we actually printed the wrong number on the sticker, one that matched our tailpiece. This way, people who sent away for copies of that patent didn't ever get a copy of the pickup.".

[Jammin'John]

That's a funny story.

JJ

[soundmasterg]

Every type of Alnico and even ceramics. Evbery wire gauge from 41 to 44. Every possible DCR from the low 6ks to the mid 10ks.

.

Then those pickups that are 6k and 10k and 41 gauge, 43 gauge and 44 gauge aren't even close to PAF's and Vintage Guitar should be ashamed of themselves as should the makers who make those particular pickups for jumping on the PAF bandwagon when their pickups aren't even close to what a PAF was.

Greg

[Mark Hammer]

I don't think the magazine purposefully selected what they felt were "authentic" PAF replicas. They may have simply asked regular or occasional advertisers for their submission. Again, this was not a "shootout" or review. Just a stroll down the aisle of what's out there.

While I concur that, using the exact same materials, and exact same methods, ought to get you the exact same product, whether wound by Seth Lover from beyond the grave, or by a little old lady in Seoul, it can also be the case that highly similar tonal characteristics are achievable using other materials and methods. Some things are irreplaceable, I suppose, but sometimes folks can surprise us.

[Jim Darr]

While I concur that, using the exact same materials, and exact same methods, ought to get you the exact same product, whether wound by Seth Lover from beyond the grave, or by a little old lady in Seoul, it can also be the case that highly similar tonal characteristics are achievable using other materials and methods.

Mark,

Don’t really agree with the first part of your statement. While what you say may seem to be the case, in reality the results will be different.

It is much like cooking food. You can give two winders the exact same recipe and the results will be similar but different. Some of the things that could cause this to be so are tension, their winding equipment, and variables in wire from batch-to-batch and even within the spool itself. All that assumes the alloys, bobbin dimensions, magnets and everything else is exactly the same.

I’ve taken one of my formulas, using all the same components, and wound them on two different manual auto-traverse machines, and experienced different results even set to the same TPL. That is why I dedicate one machine for a particular type of pickup. Controlling these, seemingly inconsequential things, do make a big difference in the finished sound.

I do fully agree with your last point that using different, non-traditional P.A.F. materials, can yield the same sonic results as some of the best examples from the 50s and early 60s. However, this requires much experimenting and experience. My goal is to not produce "clones", but to reproduce those best sounds made during the golden era.

[Mark Hammer]

We're on the same page in that regard. I guess we just started out with different notions of what "same materials, same methods" implied. What you describe as a result of applying a different winder to the same materials, and getting a different result, is pretty much what I was thinking.

[WolfeMacleod]

Saw it, and I'm pretty pissed off about it. They attributed "Dr. Vintage" pickups to Rick Norman, the guy who tried to steal the name and force me to teach him how to make them, back in 2007/08. Led to my divorce.
VG was aware of the trademark dispute. As per our agreement when we ended in a stalemate, he agreed not to use the "Dr. Vintage" name for his pickups at all.
Several people have commented on this of VG's Facebook page, and they keep deleting the comments.

[big_teee]

I just call and categorize them all as Humbuckers!
We have way too many names for basically the same thing.
Just my .02 !
T

[Mark Hammer]

Disappointing. Not being on the book of faces, I was unaware of the "activities" you refer to. They've (VG) always been square with me, and responsive. I'm still amazed that they can print letters in response to the previous issue. Most mags would need at least 2 months' lead time.

[Antigua]

Is "PAF" a tone unto itself, or does it merely describe a particular output range of the common 'two bobbins over AlNiCo bar' format?

If PAF is a tone unto itself, what endows those pickups with their own tonal character?

[mr fab]

the paf itself is an anomaly in the pickup world.

the originals varied all over the place in terms of winds because the original winders Gibson used did not have working counters and hence were wound by time. this was in the 58-60 period. there is also some debate as to whether the magnets also varied between A3, A4 and A5. IIRC that after that time, the counters were fixed and they became more consistent in terms of winds. the originals could have been wound as low as 7k and as high as 10k and could have had mismatched bobbins to varying degrees

over the years, Gibson , as well as many other pickup makers, have made so-called replicas of the PAF pickup, often in many different flavours, using A2, A3, A4, and A5 magnets , and also wound with differing numbers of winds.

so essentially a PAF could be classed as a humbucker with any of the above characteristics

so to answer your question, yes, there is a PAF sound, but it depends on which PAF sound you refer to.....

Gibson have their burstbucker range of pickups, classic 57 etc etc..... Duncan, have sh-1, pearly gates, bonamassa sets... etc etc .....plus the plethora of other pickup makers out there with their own versions as well...

[RedHouse]

...yes, there is a PAF sound, but it depends on which PAF sound you refer to...

I been preaching that for years, people take it (from me) as argumentative within PAF tone threads, I'm glad to hear another voice of reason.

[Tony Bones]

You guys surprise me. In the grand scheme of things, stepping back and considering all possible guitar pickup designs, all of those pickups in the article are amazingly similar. They're not just humbuckers, but they have the same size bobbins and use the same design with a single magnet (same size) between the poles of the two bobbins, a metal baseplate below the magnet. *Most* of them have solid slug poles in one bobbin and adjustable 5-40 cheese head screws as the poles in the other bobbin... Should I go on?

[Antigua]

You guys surprise me. In the grand scheme of things, stepping back and considering all possible guitar pickup designs, all of those pickups in the article are amazingly similar. They're not just humbuckers, but they have the same size bobbins and use the same design with a single magnet (same size) between the poles of the two bobbins, a metal baseplate below the magnet. *Most* of them have solid slug poles in one bobbin and adjustable 5-40 cheese head screws as the poles in the other bobbin... Should I go on?

Honestly it makes me wonder how much of the difference is real vs imagined, such as the concept of a "PAF sound".

When I think about a guitar as nothing more than a length of wood with a string attached as a pickup under a particular node of that string, I have a moment of clarity where I realize the extent to which the aura of the company than makes the guitar, the model of guitar, the fancy but functionless binding and appointments, and all the famous music and musicians associated with that model of guitar, nostalgia and legacy all serve to distract me from how rudimentary the whole thing really is, in the same way that the flashing lights and sounds of a casino thoroughly obscure the fact that it's all funded by patrons losing more often than they win. I fear that it puts me into a state of mind where I think I hear much more of a difference from one pickup to the next than really exists. Like wine tasting, micro brews or sipping vintage Scotch, without the pomp and circumstance, you'd just be another alcoholic. Well... if it's wrong, I don't want to be right.

[Stratz]

Honestly it makes me wonder how much of the difference is real vs imagined

When you figure it out you'll know.
They just feel great to play. Lots of overtones/bloom. It's like a very special sound that you can also feel.