Gibson Competition

[Spence]

It’s the 50th Anniversary of the Mighty Humbucker and Gibson wants to give you a pair—or two!

We’ve got a problem here at Gibson: We want to celebrate the anniversary of the extraordinary humbucker and we just can’t decide which Patent Applied For Gibson humbucker we like best—the sparkling ’57 Classic or the gritty Burstbucker. They’re both the most accurate recreation of our vintage Gibson humbuckers available, but each in its own way. Built to Gibson’s exclusive specs, the ’57 Classic replicates the exact patent of the original Gibson humbuckers, and features punchy low-end and round mids, with a distinctive sparkle on the high-end. The Burstbuckers, on the other hand, are Gibson’s painstaking recreation of how those specs were actually built in the late ’50s on Gibson’s Kalamazoo, Michigan shop floor—beautifully replicating Gibson’s traditional hand-wound process. Less precise in the windings than the ’57 Classics, the Burstbuckers pack a gritty, vintage wallop—a touch darker, and a little less hi-fi.

Which pickup is better? We love ’em both—that’s why we are giving away both. You be the judge.

Grand Prize winner will receive a pair of ’57 Classics and a pair of Burstbuckers

Second prize gets a choice of ’57 Classics or a pair of Burstbuckers. We can’t choose, so you have to!

Third prize wins a complete Gibson Gear Custom Care Kit

The last prize is a pair of wellington boots, a plump young sheep and a Leesona to make your own tank tops with.

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyl...7/Humbuckers//

[NightWinder]

HAtin

Not thats painstakingly funny..... Nice highlight-"Gibsons Handwound Process". I vaguely remember someone saying pafs were not handwound.....

The Burstbuckers, on the other hand, are Gibson’s painstaking recreation of how those specs were actually built in the late ’50s on Gibson’s Kalamazoo, Michigan shop floor—beautifully replicating Gibson’s traditional hand-wound process.

[Possum]

handwound

It was that dumb guy Seth Lover who said they weren't hand wound, what the fuck does he know, he's dead.....

[Spence]

To be fair, I can't remember every aspect of production at the factory I used to manage and that's only 8 years ago. But I do remember having specialist machinery sat in corners because it ended up holding up production instead of speeding it up as designed. I would be suprised if Seth Lover could remember every aspect of Gibson production bearing in mind his involvement in so many other areas and his move to Fender etc....

The article I posted earlier about the Gibson competition clearly states that the 57 Classic is made as Gibson intended while the burstbuckers are made in the same way that Gibson actually did make them.

[NightWinder]

Time for you machine winders to adjust....HEHEHEHE- Spinning off my stool!!! Spence, you've just created the look on somes face just like your avatar....Hunnnn????

[Possum]

bogus......

This is Gibson horseshit. The Seth Lover interview I read is from the early 70s and he clearly emphatically states they were machine wound, Duncan did the interview and he now owns those winders. Now those winders don't wind like modern computer winders, they are sloppy in comparison, so they don't lay down each wire perfectly where a computer winder would, so the sloppiness and low tech tension system has some aspects of hand winding in it, this is the big reason I didn't buy a computerized winder but built one that works on a computer but does the same kind of wind the old Leesona would do.

I think what Gibson really did was to make more PRODUCTS to buy by having their '57 classics which are surely wound on high tech fast coil winders, and their burstbuckers which are probably wound on the same machines but some programmed slop added. They probably cut alot of corners in all those pickups, potting them for one thing which no PAF ever was, and the wire they are using is probably not right either. There are some things in the old PAFs that are not factory friendly for production these days so I bet they cheaped out on the details, still they are better pickups than some they've made in the past.....

[JGundry]

Please. Unwind any Burst Bucker and then tell me if it is hand wound or is even replicating a "hand wound process". I hate to repeat it but a key part of PAF, Pat Sticker and T-Top tone is machine winding. The real trick is figuring out how to machine wind just as sloppily as Gibson did with it's machine winders. I bet if any of you guys ever rewound or repaired a PAF you never really unwound it with the notion that it was machine wound since you would not have been able to replicate it anyway. You probably unwound it enough to fix a short and if that failed you sliced through the magnet wire to do a hand rewind and an opportunity was lost. Really, do your homework and stop listening to the Gibson marketing department for a lesson in PAF winding.

[JGundry]

Possum narrowly beat me to essentially the same monologue. Great minds really do think alike. Possum is right an off the shelf modern winder is not going to act like an old Gibson winder. A modern off the shelf computerized winder is made to very precisely lay down the wire. The winders Gibson used were not the same animal by a long shot. If you want a winding pattern like a vintage PAF, Pat Sticker or T-Top pickup you need to know the parameters of an old winder like the Leesona 102 and build it into your own winder. Just getting a new modern winder won't do the trick, literally. And I'm not telling what the trick is.

[Spence]

Possum narrowly beat me to essentially the same monologue. Great minds really do think alike. Possum is right an off the shelf modern winder is not going to act like an old Gibson winder. A modern off the shelf computerized winder is made to very precisely lay down the wire. The winders Gibson used were not the same animal by a long shot. If you want a winding pattern like a vintage PAF, Pat Sticker or T-Top pickup you need to know the parameters of an old winder like the Leesona 102 and build it into your own winder. Just getting a new modern winder won't do the trick, literally. And I'm not telling what the trick is.

Cue the sound of ruffled feathers.


Who gives a fuck anyway?

Chill out you guys; if you've hit the jackpot ( and don't want to tell ) that's fine. I creases me that you don't think anyone else has ever really studied vintage pickups though. What have you got a franchise on that...?

[kevinT]

Ok... Here is my formula that attempts to copy the winding conditions of the old leesonas.

1. Add a minute wobble to the tooling as to not wind a perfectly true bobbin to mimic an old rickety machine.

2. Bump the machine about 5 times thoughout the winding process as to mimic a possible drunk or hungover employee walking past the machine and stubbing their toe on it as it is winding a bobbin

3. Stop and start the machine 3 times throughout the winding process as to mimic:
a. employee taking a cigarette break
b. employee taking a dump
c. employee being called to the manager's office to be reprimanded because they are taking too long for their cigarette and bathroom breaks.

I'm still working on the low-tech tension system but right now i'm using a 1960s spring-loaded cloths pin that i bought off ebay.

[JGundry]

No ruffled feathers here. I just think you are holding on to the entire PAF hand wound thing with no real evidence. You may have had the evidence in hand and just did not choose to see it. It is tough to be open to other possibilities if you are a contrarian all of the time. I don't think it is my job to convince every skeptic pickup maker on this matter. But the truth is if you are ingenious enough to build your own winder, which most here are, and you want to go through the expense of completely unwinding a bunch of vintage pickups then you will likely figure out the tricks to machine winding a vintage humbucker.

I have yet to see anyone give any real precise winding advice concerning winding a vintage pickup of any kind. Everyone knows that this is information that is key to the trade and nobody want to give it away. Frankly I think that the amount of information concerning machine winding that has been already been shared is very valuable. But feel free to chuck it out the window.

[kevinT]

I forgot to mention....I call this my: "just fill up the damn bobbin wrap!"

[Spence]

What, so because I don't have the same view point as you that means I can't have done my research and am to be labelled a 'contrarian'.
In fact, I don't believe I have ever said PAFs were not wound on a Leesona. I just said that not all of them were wound on a Leesona.
I have stated on many occasions that I have seen a short video of Possum's machine in operation and was impressed with his ingenuity. I have also stated that what some may consider to be a good sounding PAF may not be another man's idea of a good sounding PAF. So I can't see why you would start throwing your toys out of the pram just because I had the audacity to post Gibson's competition details here.

So instead of calling me a contrarian why don't you tell Gibson that they are a bunch of lying assholes ?

[JGundry]

I forgot to mention....I call this my: "just fill up the damn bobbin wrap!"

I think that is just about how much thought Gibson put into any of their pickups once production was underway. Interestingly though when you unwind them with it in mind that they were machine you begin to see that some of the things that were done to speed up the process. These things have a tonal impact on the pickup. I don't think this was by design but nonetheless it impacts the tone in a way that is peculiar to machine winding and can't be done by hand winding.

[NightWinder]

HAha. That is some funny stuff!! Really. There is no tricks- thats baby shit man. Research, yes. Tricks? Na. Not all were wound machine: ) Thats the point. Nothing....
The raging debate of hand vrs machine and if hands can get the tone....There is no answer to that- Just your Opinion........