Guitar vs Bass - tpl

[kayakerca]

Everything else being equal (bobbin height, etc.), would you wind the same, fewer or more tpl for a bass vs a guitar and why. Not interested in specific tpl here, just if winders here do the two differently.

[copperheadroads]

Great question ...I've pondered this as I'm only green to bass & I think I want it a little more tight & focussed ..that is compared to 50's fender strats n tele pups

[mr fab]

I have been making bass pickups for a while now and having a few gigging bass player friends as guinea pigs....I can say definitely say that bass pickups are more preferred with higher tpl. they say they have better definition when wound with higher tpl and they also say the low end is more defined

I think this also has a lot to do with the modern bass rigs, which are more "hi-fi" sounding than the bass amps used in the past

[big_teee]

I like brighter sounding bass pickups.
I make most of my bass bobbins tall and with minimum scatter.
T

[mr fab]

I like brighter sounding bass pickups.
I make most of my bass bobbins tall and with minimum scatter.
T

yep me too....I will be trying awg41 on some soon

[David King]

Minimum scatter and bright don't go together in theory since high TPL will have more capacitative coupling and lose highs as a result so something else must be going on there.

[big_teee]

high tpl = smaller coil diameter.
Smaller diameter is usually brighter, than Fatter, IMO.
T

[mr fab]

Minimum scatter and bright don't go together in theory since high TPL will have more capacitative coupling and lose highs as a result so something else must be going on there.

I agree that in theory it would not be the case, but with a minimum scatter, pickups do sound brighter and less complex

[kayakerca]

So what I'm getting here is that bass players seem to be preferring a more "articulate" tone (if that's a fair way to describe it) from their bass pickups these days which is being delivered (at least partially) through higher tpl (reduced scatter) winds. I have not been winding bass pickups to date, other than rewinds from time to time. Looks like I'm going to have to find a bass player or two to use as guinea pigs (like Mr. Fab is thinking) to try out a few combinations with players that know what they are looking to hear.

[mr fab]

yes....I have tried all sorts of different winds and bass players (my guinea pigs) seem to prefer brighter and more articulate pickups.

remember, the modern day bass rig is very hi-fi; a completely different animal than the bass amps of old and guitar amps.

in fact, I have a hiwatt bass amp here with a sub and tweeter that sounds really good with my acoustic guitar, its very articulate and clear

[big_teee]

I agree with mr fab.
Also add, that amps and speakers make a huge difference in tone.
Solid state, and 10 inch speakers, with an occasional 15, seem to be the norm.
The darker muddier sounding bass amps aren't as popular anymore.
T

[mr fab]

I agree with mr fab.
Also add, that amps and speakers make a huge difference in tone.
Solid state, and 10 inch speakers, with an occasional 15, seem to be the norm.
The darker muddier sounding bass amps aren't as popular anymore.
T

yep the fender bassman is actually a very good guitar amp... and so is the Marshall Superbass, rarely used as bass amps today
.... but in their day they were the bass amp to have

[David King]

I agree that as much brightness as well as coherence in the low end as possible. Whether the player will want a scooped out midrange is going to depend on how big the venues they are playing in are. "Bedroom" players want all the mids scooped out vs arena players who desperately need a flat frequency response or perhaps a bit more mids just to hear what notes they are playing. There's a reason that Bartolini and EMG are still the most popular aftermarket pickups. Neither of them uses much alnico, they get their focus from relatively low winds over ceramic magnets. It doesn't hurt that they keep the cost very low at the same time. Everything is machine wound and probably to fairly high TPL.

Many a serious player won't use a stage amp at all, just a monitor. The amp on stage is often just there for show or turned down low and very carefully miked.
That's not so true in the studio. Modern bass amps have terrible signal to noise ratios generally unless it's a B15 with good caps and decent tubes.