Coverting Strat Ceramic Magnet Pups to Alnico rods

[hewo]

Strat Pole Pieces Swap to Alnico Rod

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Hi everyone,

1. This old gramma gave me her son's strat (abandoned by her son long ago).

2. The pups have basement ceramic magnets, this sound is junky compared to polepieces of alnico rods.

3. The cost of alnico rodded pups are around 40 to 200 USD for the complete threesome.

4. I may be able to detour such exorbitant cost if I can remove the ceramic basement magnet and its dummy polepieces, then insert pre-cut staggered alnico rods back into the receptacles, retaining the original factory windings and bobbin.

5. Question to you forum experts is whether this is achievable, where to get such alnico polepieces pre-cut (gotta use dremel diamond cutting wheel humbug!), and finally which alnico rod type.

Thanks in advance folks for your assist

[copperheadroads]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmwpvDd8zU0
Rod Magnets

[hewo]

Harder Said Than Done

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmwpvDd8zU0
Rod Magnets

Wow! Lots of Opportunity to screw up!
1. impact
2. windings compromise
3. vector magnetic orientation (affects phase)
4. vector magnetic orientation with respect to "other" pups engaged (selected)
5. "staggered" alnico alignment process
6. which alnico diameter (there's only two avail)
7. is it better to "charge" nonmagnetized alnico using "charging" magnet rare earth, or merely use premagnetied alnico ?

[copperheadroads]

Wow! Lots of Opportunity to screw up!
1. impact
2. windings compromise
3. vector magnetic orientation (affects phase)
4. vector magnetic orientation with respect to "other" pups engaged (selected)
5. "staggered" alnico alignment process
6. which alnico diameter (there's only two avail)
7. is it better to "charge" nonmagnetized alnico using "charging" magnet rare earth, or merely use premagnetied alnico ?

[hewo]

pups say emg

But polepieces are dummies for sure.
I can chk vector north of these pups emg and document it on covers. Then easy to swap in alnico.
Place alnico onto styrofoam in bucket water watch true north align?
Emg vector north can be identified so long as benchmark magnet marked already north. Repellency will affirm "like" poles.

[copperheadroads]

If the magnets are charged ,having them stuck together end to end works quite well as you keep all of them in the same oriented in the same direction as you insert them .
Now remove the magnets & slugs & measure one if you have a set of calipers this will determine if you need .187" or .195" I would go with .187" as it is easy to tighten them up in the hole with glue .
I wouldn't worry about stagger I would go with all .688" A5 magnets are more common & have stronger more powerful gauss than A2 or A3 .
use a CHEAP compass to determine polarity you can use the old cheap set as reference if the middle pickup has opposite polarity compared to the neck & bridge pickup then it is a RW/RP set which most cheap crappies pickups I've seen lately are RW/RP

[hewo]

order alnico from ebay?

If the magnets are charged ,having them stuck together end to end works quite well as you keep all of them in the same oriented in the same direction as you insert them .
Now remove the magnets & slugs & measure one if you have a set of calipers this will determine if you need .187" or .195" I would go with .187" as it is easy to tighten them up in the hole with glue .
I wouldn't worry about stagger I would go with all .688" A5 magnets are more common & have stronger more powerful gauss than A2 or A3 .
use a CHEAP compass to determine polarity you can use the old cheap set as reference if the middle pickup has opposite polarity compared to the neck & bridge pickup then it is a RW/RP set which most cheap crappies pickups I've seen lately are RW/RP

Copperheadroads, ebay has casted alnico and unmentioned casted too.
Isn't all alnico casted?
That said, let me buy from you as confidence is greater mission success.
Else must invest in rare earth charger (can shed pinch finger blood!) and ebay un-magnetized alnico pole pieces.

[big_teee]

Depending on the type of ceramic pickup you're trying to modify?
If it is from a chisese import, most of them are all epoxied together.
I recommend to throw them away, or scrap some of the parts and start over.
You will more than likely make them a little better, but you will probably never be happy with them.
Lots of us here can fix you up with alnico custom pickups if you need a set.
BTW, I have a box full of those kind of pickups I've taken out and wound pickups for.
GL,
T

[hewo]

prey to capitalism

Depending on the type of ceramic pickup you're trying to modify?
If it is from a chisese import, most of them are all epoxied together.
I recommend to throw them away, or scrap some of the parts and start over.
You will more than likely make them a little better, but you will probably never be happay with them.
Lots of us here can fix you up with alnico custom pickups if you need a set.
BTW, I have a box full of those kind of pickups I've taken out and wound pickups for.
GL,
T

K, remvd cover, ceramic flat pegged by dummies vertically, so simple.
Can't distinguish epoxy from silicone, razor will affirm.
If epoxied, yes abort

[big_teee]

K, remvd cover, ceramic flat pegged by dummies vertically, so simple.
Can't distinguish epoxy from silicone, razor will affirm.
If epoxied, yes abort

What you are calling dummies, we call steel poles.
They are magnetized by the ceramic magnet on the bottom.
If you can get the magnet off the bottom, and remove the pole pieces, then you may want to try some alnico rods.
I would measure the ohms dcr of each pickup.
42 wire is ideal, below 6k for the neck.
Plus 5% for the middle, and more for the bridge.
Some of the imports use 43 and 44 wire, and always IMO sound thin.
That is why I usually scrap them and start over.
YMMV
GL,
T

[hewo]

ceramic flat is cynoacrylated to plastic bobbin underside

What you are calling dummies, we call steel poles.
They are magnetized by the ceramic magnet on the bottom.
If you can get the magnet off the bottom, and remove the pole pieces, then you may want to try some alnico rods.
I would measure the ohms dcr of each pickup.
42 wire is ideal, below 6k for the neck.
Plus 5% for the middle, and more for the bridge.
Some of the imports use 43 and 44 wire, and always IMO sound thin.
That is why I usually scrap them and start over.
YMMV
GL,
T

Can't separate cynoacrylated joint
Abandoning mission.
Also saw two tone pots a254 cascaded as in dumping highs thru cap473.
Weird, from selector switch, two different terminals individually feed hot to each tone a254. One a254 wipes hot thru cap473 to earth, the other a254 wipes hot back to previous a254's same cap473 hotside.
I chose to separate this cascade and assign independent highdump caps, selecting silvermica 682 each a254. In complement, added hipass silvermica 102 onto volume pot (unknown value assumed also a254)

[Dave H]

Also saw two tone pots a254 cascaded as in dumping highs thru cap473.
Weird, from selector switch, two different terminals individually feed hot to each tone a254. One a254 wipes hot thru cap473 to earth, the other a254 wipes hot back to previous a254's same cap473 hotside.

That sounds like standard Strat wiring to me. Both tone pots use the same cap. The top tone pot is selected in the N and N+M positions of the selector and the bottom tone pot is selected in M and N+M positions meaning the N+M position has the tone pots in parallel which can make it too muddy and the bridge PU doesn't have a tone pot which makes it too bright. It's more useful if the bottom tone is moved from the middle to bridge pickup.

[hewo]

non paralleled tone pots strat stnd

That sounds like standard Strat wiring to me. Both tone pots use the same cap. The top tone pot is selected in the N and N+M positions of the selector and the bottom tone pot is selected in M and N+M positions meaning the N+M position has the tone pots in parallel which can make it too muddy and the bridge PU doesn't have a tone pot which makes it too bright. It's more useful if the bottom tone is moved from the middle to bridge pickup.

So is my alteration paralleled. "muddiness" or unknown insofar as independently dedicated high roll off 682 silvermica?

[Dave H]

So is my alteration paralleled. "muddiness" or unknown insofar as independently dedicated high roll off 682 silvermica?

I don't think there will be much difference with the tone controls on 10.

[Mike Sulzer]

What you are calling dummies, we call steel poles.
They are magnetized by the ceramic magnet on the bottom.
If you can get the magnet off the bottom, and remove the pole pieces, then you may want to try some alnico rods.
I would measure the ohms dcr of each pickup.
42 wire is ideal, below 6k for the neck.
Plus 5% for the middle, and more for the bridge.
Some of the imports use 43 and 44 wire, and always IMO sound thin.
That is why I usually scrap them and start over.
YMMV
GL,
T

Exactly, and steel poles have a higher permeability than Alnico, which means that the pickup with steel has more output and a lower resonant frequency than with Alnico. (The steel also has higher eddy current losses, and thus a broader resonant peak and a somewhat different sound.) So if you wanted to make a cheap pickup with the same output as a real Fender, you would use steel poles so you could use fewer turns. Then you would use a smaller diameter wire so that the resistance (a measurement anyone could make) would look about right. You use ceramic magnet(s) because they are cheap, although once you have steel poles, the type of magnet (outside the coil) is not so important. You do not worry too much about whether the resonant frequency is right because you are just trying to get something to sell cheap.

So if you put in Alnico pole pieces, you have no reason to think that the result is any closer to the real thing. It could well have too high a resonant frequency and too little output, and sound thin, as BT said it might.

Best idea is get some real pickups..