? about 2 single coils in series

[GlennW]

I'll keep this short. Will the middle and bridge pickups in series sound the same no matter which has the ground and which has the hot lead?

IOW, will connecting the bridge hot to the middle ground sound the same as connecting the middle hot to the bridge ground?

[David Schwab]

I've never noticed any difference.

[GlennW]

Thanks, David. It sounded good in the rough-in phase, but after wiring it up for good it sounded pretty bad. Maybe I had the the pickup heights adjusted funny. After fooling around with it some more it's sounding useable.

I asked because I wasn't sure how it was wired while testing.

[black_labb]

shouldnt changing the lead direction change the phase, ie out of phase as opposed to in phase?

[GlennW]

I didn't change lead direction. I might have changed the order of the coils in series. That wouldn't change the phase. It just changes which coil is first when in series.

I don't know if they're RW or not - lost that part of my notes. But I do know it sounded ok one way or the other when tested in series. The bridge and middle sound bad in parallel, so they might both have the same winding direction - might have to replace the middle.

[David Schwab]

The bridge and middle sound bad in parallel, so they might both have the same winding direction - might have to replace the middle.

Bad how? Unless the magnets are opposite, both having the same winding directions is in-phase, and should sound normal. They just wont hum cancel.

If they have reverse polarity magnets, they will be out of phase and sound thin. Reversing the wring or winding direction would put them in phase and cancel hum.

[GlennW]

The middle and bridge do have reverse polarity. It's a fake Strat like this:
Neck - TV Jonesatron (HB, no coil tap/split), 4.07 K
Middle - Strat, south, 6.25 K
Bridge - Gibson P-90, north, 8.54 K

Neck/middle in parallel sounds fine.

Middle/bridge in parallel does sound very thin - unuseable.
This could be because they're RP/non-RW? Maybe that's where I screwed up.
If that's the case reversing the leads on the middle pickup OR reversing the polarity of the P-90 should fix it?

[David Schwab]

Middle/bridge in parallel does sound very thin - unuseable.
This could be because they're RP/non-RW? Maybe that's where I screwed up.

Yes, they are out of phase.

If that's the case reversing the leads on the middle pickup OR reversing the polarity of the P-90 should fix it?

If the neck/middle sound fine, then you want to switch the bridge wires.

The bridge and middle are already opposite magnet polarity, so swiching the wires on the bridge pickup is what you want. If it's using vintage style coax, you will have to fit it at the pickup.

[GlennW]

Looks like I goobered out and put the wrong Strat pickup in there - turns out it was north and wound ccw. That explains it.

I'll either switch out the Strat pickup with one that's south and cw, or flip the magnets and reverse the leads on the one that's in there.

I don't want to mess with the P-90 for fear of butchering it.

The TV pickup has three wires, so it would be easier for me to reverse those than the P-90 if the neck/middle sounds bad.

Thanks again.

[GlennW]

I'm overlooking something, or just being stupid. After replacing the north/ccw middle with a south/cw the neck/middle still sounds good, but the middle/bridge combinations changed. They are louder in parallel than series, and neither way sounds good.

I read somewhere that the P-90 was wound ccw, but haven't checked (if I did, I don't remember). I'll reverse the leads on the middle pickup and try again.

[GlennW]

I finally figured it out. The P-90 is wound cw. I read they were ccw and never checked. Now it all makes since.

It all worked out for the best - the TV is out and another Strat pickup is in, and it sounds better. The P-90 at the bridge goes to position 3 on the switch so it can be used in series or parallel with the neck and middle pickups. The N/M quack is lost, but that's alright - I'm not much of a quacker anyway.

Thanks for the help.

[David Schwab]

You know, worst comes to worst, you can flip the magnet around on a pickup to get it back in phase with the others, while maintaining it's winding direction.

[Zhangliqun]

You know, worst comes to worst, you can flip the magnet around on a pickup to get it back in phase with the others, while maintaining it's winding direction.

True. That's what I was going to suggest -- just flip the P90 mags.

[GlennW]

Thanks. I didn't realize the magnets would effect the sound - learned a good lesson. I knew about the leads, but not the magnets. I'd siliconed the P-90 magnets, and it sounds fine now with reversing the leads on both Strat pickups. I'm not sure, but think it's better to have opposite polarities when using series.

And all this got me to thinking about the big Gibson sidewinder bass pickup again. I don't mess with HB's, but thought they all had two RW/RPcoils (or were wired as they did). That Gibson bass HB (2nd version with the poles in the middle) has one row of poles and coils on both sides and magnets at both ends. If I'm not mistaken the magnets have the same polarities facing each other, connected by blades that connect to the poles, so the whole thing is (I think) two coils with the same polarity using the same poles; making it not a rw/rp two coil pickup.

I'm borrowing David's picture:

[David Schwab]

Yes the magnets are the same polarity. I just checked it.