Single coil Pickups GLASSY SOUND problem!!!!

[big_teee]

How can we put this in a way you can understand...YES!

That's all you can expect from members that don't wind pickups?
T

[John Kolbeck]

That's all you can expect from members that don't wind pickups?
T

[big_teee]

I just call it like I see it, and please no swearing!
Your posts in this thread have very little relevance in helping the OP fix his winding issue!
When the thread is about a problem, the objective should be to help the OP solve it.
T

[Mike Sulzer]

Can you describe in more detail why the perturbed vibration brought about by the increased magnetism would result in more high end, rather than less high end, or any other sort of outcome?



Was this in reference to me or someone else?

When there is too strong a magnetic field, the vibration frequency in the direction of the field is modified. Since the vibration in the two directions (call them for example horizontal and vertical) are coupled (motion in a rotating ellipse), a disruption is introduced and this can result in more string harmonics. But it depends on a lot of things to do with the string. Somebody should study this in detail some day.


No, it did not refer to you.

T, this had possible relevance in a situation with A5 magnets sticking up a bit high with an unusual tip shape.

[John Kolbeck]

When there is too strong a magnetic field, the vibration frequency in the direction of the field is modified. Since the vibration in the two directions (call them for example horizontal and vertical) are coupled (motion in a rotating ellipse), a disruption is introduced and this can result in more string harmonics. But it depends on a lot of things to do with the string. Somebody should study this in detail some day.

Do you think that the particular harmonics that are dampened or emphasized by the magnetic pull correspond similarly to the harmonics that are dampened and emphasized when you perform a pinch harmonics in that same location along the string? For example, if you pinch at the 12th fret, you dampen fundamental and get more 2nd harmonic (relatively or absolutely?), so if you were to put a strong magnet over the 12th fret, can we expect that the 2nd harmonic will be emphasized in a similar manner? That's something I'll have to try out.

Do you happen to know, when you perform a pinch harmonic, say at the 12th fret, the fundamental goes silent, but is more energy then transferred to the 2nd harmonic, or does it only sound louder due to the absence of the fundamental?

Another consequence to the idea that it's the string that changes with pickup height, and not the performance of the pickup in relation to the string, is that raising and lower un-selected pickups should change the tone coming away from the selected pickup. That's something else I'll have to try.

[bbsailor]

When there is too strong a magnetic field, the vibration frequency in the direction of the field is modified. Since the vibration in the two directions (call them for example horizontal and vertical) are coupled (motion in a rotating ellipse), a disruption is introduced and this can result in more string harmonics. But it depends on a lot of things to do with the string. Somebody should study this in detail some day.

There was a discussion on MEF back in 2010 that was related to this topic. Some new members may want to see it here: http://music-electronics-forum.com/t21125/

Rick Turner made an interesting observation about how fast the initial string energy from the string plunk gets absorbed by different body styles and that string energy absorption may affect the amplitude of the later vertical string motion when the string vibration rotates to a more vertical movement.

Add to this discussion the pickup coil shape and style (tall narrow vs. short wide) single coil vs. humbucker and additional variations in magnet types, strength and ferrous metal plates under or around the coil that may provide more emphasis to the horizontal string movement that increases the the tonal content of the second harmonic at 2X the string fundamental frequency.

Joseph J. Rogowski

[John Kolbeck]

There was a discussion on MEF back in 2010 that was related to this topic. Some new members may want to see it here: http://music-electronics-forum.com/t21125/

Wow, so many interesting and dramatic posts in that thread.

An interesting post by Rick Turner about how the pickup's "position" changes relative to which note is being fretted Low Impedance Over and Under Pickup Design

A very educational post about how the permanent magnet, string and coil relate to each other: http://music-electronics-forum.com/t21125-2/#post175948

This forum is full of gems.

I tried holding a magnet over various sections of the string while they rang out. Only the lower wound strings seemed audibly disturbed by the magnet, causing a typical "Stratitus" sort of wolf tone, that was more prominent the closer I got to the center of the string, as you'd expect. I didn't really hear much of an EQ change, I wasn't able to coax more treble from the guitar by holding the magnet over any particular part of the strings, at least not without also causing those nasty wolf tones. So my own observation leads me to believe that it's not so much string perturbation from magnetic pull that causes a pickup mounted high to sound so different from a pickup that is mounted lower. It doesn't help matters that everyone differently describes how the sound changes when you raise or lower a pickup, but everyone agrees that the sound changes significantly.

[LtKojak]

everyone differently describes how the sound changes when you raise or lower a pickup, but everyone agrees that the sound changes significantly.

Well, this line, summed to others in previous threads, suggest that you not only don't wind p'ups, also that you don't even play an electric guitar.

John, you'll be better off collaborating on theoretical physics forums. P'up forum? Not so much.

HTH,

[John Kolbeck]

Just a quick example of how people don't seem to agree on how the height of the pickup effects tone the same way:

How Pickup Height Affects the Tone (Updated Feb 2012) | guitar TONE OVERLOAD

As a general rule, when you move a pickup closer to the strings, you will get more output but also more high frequencies which can become ear piercing.

How does pickup height affect tone? | The Gear Page

I've read different opinions on this, but I THINK the majority believe that lowering the pickups makes them a little brighter

Thus is can be difficult to find something when you're not even sure what is being sought out.

[rjb]

Meanwhile, back at the original question

Summary:

- Coil height reduced from 12 mm to 11 mm -> improvement
- OP checking wire guide- suspects may have been stripping insulation
- General consensus to try magnets with less bevel
- Magnet strength questioned

Has accuracy of turns counter been confirmed?

[big_teee]

Thanks RJB for addressing the OPs problem, instead of just Hijacking the thread.
I didn't see where the counter was verified.
However he said that his 8000 turns, came out to around 6k ohms.
That calculates out ok, so he is probably good there, and his winder looks like a schatten or something similar.
He was going to redesign his guide bar.
He also bought a Tone-Kraft 59 pre-built bobbin, so he should be good on that.
T

[LtKojak]

Just a quick example of how people don't seem to agree on how the height of the pickup effects tone the same way:

Thus is can be difficult to find something when you're not even sure what is being sought out.

Which proves my point: if you've had actual experience, you'd knew which one is the right one or, God Almighty, in what circumstances both cases can also be true.

Your honor, I rest my case!

[John Kolbeck]

Which proves my point: if you've had actual experience, you'd knew which one is the right one or, God Almighty, in what circumstances both cases can also be true.

Your honor, I rest my case!

The point was not whether I could tell the tonal difference between raising and lowering pickups, but whether or not others could agree on what that difference is. The fact that I had quoted other people in the post you just responded should tell you that I'm calling attention to the confusion on their part, not solely on my own. In order for the guitar community to figure out what causes the difference, rather than just take wild guesses for another sixty or seventy years... it would be helpful to first agree to what that difference even is.

It's like you're just scanning my posts for any perceived mistake that you can find and jump on, without taking the context into consideration.

[rjb]

Could you guys please knock off the bickering?
It's giving me a headache.

[Mike Sulzer]

Could you guys please knock off the bickering?
It's giving me a headache.

If you are attacked by a bully, you have a right to defend yourself. Kojak is the forum bully with all that usually implies. You cannot make the problem go away by appealing to those he attacks. You have to deal with him and only him.