Frustrated by phasing issues

[Alberto]

One of the conditions seems to me to be redundant:

1) magnetic polarity of the poles
2) winding direction (left-going or right-going when viewed from the same side)
3) which of the coils ends is used as the "hot" output

There's no rule stating that you have to use the end coil wire as the "hot" and the winding direction is irrelevant as long as you can use both the start or the end wire for the "hot" output. Or rather, we may say that the "winding direction" is determined by the the side of the bobbin you're using for the lead

[Helmholtz]

One of the conditions seems to me to be redundant:

1) magnetic polarity of the poles
2) winding direction (left-going or right-going when viewed from the same side)
3) which of the coils ends is used as the "hot" output

There's no rule stating that you have to use the end coil wire as the "hot" and the winding direction is irrelevant as long as you can use both the start or the end wire for the "hot" output. Or rather, we may say that the "winding direction" is determined by the the side of the bobbin you're using for the lead

I think you want to argue that conditions 2 and 3 are equivalent. They actually are for a single wire loop, as this has no identifiable start/end and winding direction.
But for practical reasons a PU coil needs to be wound from inside to outside, the start always being inside i.e. fixed. And so it makes a difference if the coil is wound clockwise or counter-clockwise and which end is grounded.

[Alberto]

I think you want to argue that conditions 2 and 3 are equivalent. They actually are for a single wire loop, as this has no identifiable start/end and winding direction.
But for practical reasons a PU coil needs to be wound from inside to outside, the start always being inside i.e. fixed. And so it makes a difference if the coil is wound clockwise or counter-clockwise and which end is grounded.

I think that you're implicitly assuming that the end should be the "hot" and the start should be grounded, but that not necessary. Let's assume that we have two bobbins: bobbin1 is wound clockwise, bobbin2 is wound counter-clockwise. Using the start wire of bobbin1 for the "hot" and the end wire of bobbin2 for the "hot" yields the same result.

[Helmholtz]

I think that you're implicitly assuming that the end should be the "hot" and the start should be grounded,

No, exactly not.

From the point of physics all that matters is the direction of the current. But as soon as one end of the coil is defined/identified as start, the signal polarity depends on the wiring as well as on winding direction: Phase inversion is achieved by exchanging start wire for end wire or by opposite winding direction.
Remember, this thread is about (practical) influences on final signal phase/polarity (only 2 possibilties).

Apart from these phase considerations, it actually makes sense to ground the coil start in single coils because it improves S/N. This has been elaborated in other threads.

[Alberto]

No, exactly not.

From the point of physics all that matters is the direction of the current. But as soon as one end of the coil is defined/identified as start, the signal polarity depends on the wiring as well as on winding direction: Phase inversion is achieved by exchanging start wire for end wire or by opposite winding direction.
Remember, this thread is about (practical) influences on final signal phase/polarity (only 2 possibilties).

Apart from these phase considerations, it actually makes sense to ground the coil start in single coils because it improves S/N. This has been elaborated in other threads.

To me it seems much more logical and straightforward to only think in terms of current direction/magnet polarity, that’s all we need to solve phasing issues. I think that introducing the third “pratical” condition about start or end wire only adds to the confusion. Anyway, that’s only my personal non-practical perspective

Yes, you’re right, it makes sense to ground the coil start in some single coils because it improves S/N, but that’s only true for strat/tele style pickups.

[Helmholtz]

To me it seems much more logical and straightforward to only think in terms of current direction/magnet polarity, that’s all we need to solve phasing issues. I think that introducing the third “pratical” condition about start or end wire only adds to the confusion. Anyway, that’s only my personal non-practical perspective

Yes, you’re right, it makes sense to ground the coil start in some single coils because it improves S/N, but that’s only true for strat/tele style pickups.

Well, if you are able to measure/detect current direction/signal polarity (needle meter), you might ignore winding direction and which wire is start or end (at least regarding signal phase).
But if not, you need to observe all 3 conditions to tell PU phase by identifying winding direction, start/end wiring and magnetic polarity (compass).

You're right that e.g. a P-90 type PU should have the coil end wire grounded. It makes a difference if the poles are grounded or floating.