Source for Quality Bucker Keeper Bars? 49.2mm

[Helmholtz]

To be sure that the comparison is reliable, need to do a double-blind test, because we are all very good at fooling ourselves.

I know, problem is that I also reproducibly hear differences between pole screws of same alloy from different suppliers. I assume different levels of annealing.
The differences between the screws also manifest in different frequency dependence of the PU's impedance/inductivity.

[Joe Gwinn]

I never compared keepers, but can hear differences between 1010 and 1018 pole screws.

To be sure that the comparison is reliable, need to do a double-blind test, because we are all very good at fooling ourselves.

https://music-electronics-forum.com/...ll=1#post81088 Post #8.

[Helmholtz]

Thanks!

There is an X-ray fluorescence instrument that gives the elemental analysis directly.

Yes, that's the method the lab used where we had the old Gibson magnets analyzed. IIRC the other method employed was optical plasma/vapour spectroscopy.



I never compared keepers, but can hear differences between 1010 and 1018 pole screws.

[Joe Gwinn]

Interesting. I am not familiar with the spark test, but do you think that it might allow to tell a 0.1% (varies from 0.08% to 0.13%) from a 0.18% (varies from 0.15% to 0.2%) carbon content?

The spark test is when one grinds a bit of the material in a darkened rook, and inspects the resulting shower of sparks. One can tell quite a lot about the alloy by looking at those sparks. I don't know the German term for it, but it may be a more or less literal translation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_testing

I doubt that one can reliably tell 1010 from 1018 using a spark test. Or any test that any of us are likely to have the equipment to perform. There is an X-ray fluorescence instrument that gives the elemental analysis directly. Costs something like US $ 70 thousand.

As big_teee comments, it's unlikely one can tell them apart acoustically either. So, I don't think that ADFX was committing any sin by substituting 1010 for 1018, or vice versa. Their only sin was not being clear and consistent.

[big_teee]

So, has anyone tonally tested the difference between a 1010, and a 1018 keeper bar?
I would think tonally, the screw or slug metal content would be more critical.
Since the screw or slug does go through the pickup coil?
The biggest issue I had with keeper bars, are most were metric, and were thinner than the bar magnet, and didn't fit properly!
T

My question, was tonally can you tell the difference in a 1010, and a 1018 keeper, if all else is unchanged.
Like 1018, pole screws, and slugs?
I haven't tried it, but doubt you could tell a significant difference with a sound check?
T

[Helmholtz]

It might be possible to tell the difference between 1010 and 1018 via a home "spark test" with a small grinder, even a dremel tool. You will probably need know samples to compare the sparks with. You should be able to test for lower carbon vs higher carbon with any two pieces of steel.

Interesting. I am not familiar with the spark test, but do you think that it might allow to tell a 0.1% (varies from 0.08% to 0.13%) from a 0.18% (varies from 0.15% to 0.2%) carbon content?

[David King]

It might be possible to tell the difference between 1010 and 1018 via a home "spark test" with a small grinder, even a dremel tool. You will probably need know samples to compare the sparks with. You should be able to test for lower carbon vs higher carbon with any two pieces of steel.

[zparts]

I'm sorry you received rusty keeper bars. We can certainly replace them with new ones that are not rusty.

The manufacturer forgot to process this batch with oil to keep from rusting. Unfortunately we didn't catch it when we received them into stock because they looked fine initially.

They do and will rust because they are raw steel, but we've been selling them for years and never had them rust that bad or quickly before.

Anyway give us a call and we'll be glad to help.

[copperheadroads]

Looking for quality 49.2mm keeper bars.

Got some from Mojotone...they're rusty as all hell!!! They're trash. Can't believe they would ship something like that.

Haven't kept up on alloys. I think 1018 is considered the "standard"?

Thanks in advance.

Some PAF's have rusty Keepers

[max oersted]

Nice. If that photo is current and accurate, then you're in good shape.

[PoorMan]

Because were the exact same ones that Philly Luthier Tools have (they list as 1010), Mojotone also carried these for a hot minute too I believe. 8 hole instead of 10 and visibly in a side-by-side comparison, they were identical.

Perhaps ADFX got a fresh 1018 batch made and have them again. I'd ask for a photo first to confirm before ordering.

I don't have 1010 keepers to compare, but here is the "1018" pic listed in the auction.

[big_teee]

So, has anyone tonally tested the difference between a 1010, and a 1018 keeper bar?
I would think tonally, the screw or slug metal content would be more critical.
Since the screw or slug does go through the pickup coil?
The biggest issue I had with keeper bars, are most were metric, and were thinner than the bar magnet, and didn't fit properly!
T

[max oersted]

Because were the exact same ones that Philly Luthier Tools have (they list as 1010), Mojotone also carried these for a hot minute too I believe. 8 hole instead of 10 and visibly in a side-by-side comparison, they were identical.

Perhaps ADFX got a fresh 1018 batch made and have them again. I'd ask for a photo first to confirm before ordering.

[PoorMan]

How were you able to tell they weren’t 1018?

[max oersted]

http://addiction-fx.com/gallery5.htm

Those are excellent.

They are...if that's what ADFX decides to send you. I bought some a few months back and received exactly the ones that Big_Teee linked to which are 1010, btw. I recognized them immediately and can get those for considerably less money from other sources. I called 'em out on this bait and switch, got only excuses in return and no apology AT ALL for deliberately sending me the wrong product. Not cool. Ruined my trust in ADFX which is too bad because they had some good stuff.

1018 is easy to find. I cut and drill my own now.