Do you really need caps?

[kevinT]

If a pickup is designed well, why would you need caps. Couldn't you just tweak the pickup specs instead?

[David Schwab]

You mean for the tone control?

[Mark Hammer]

If a pickup is designed well, why would you need caps. Couldn't you just tweak the pickup specs instead?

Pickups have somewhat complex frequency response characteristics, whereas tone controls tend to be rather one-dimensional. As such, neither pickup design nor tone+cap are replacements for the other.

It bears noting, as well, that speakers vary considerably in their characteristics, and that some effects perform "better" when treble content is rolled off. For those reasons alone, it is unwise to assume that one could design a pickup with the sort of specs that could anticipate all contexts/applications. True, you CAN adjust tone at the amp, but you have to go back to the amp to do that and you can't always do that in the middle of a song.

Having said all of that, I suppose there are plenty of players whose "sound" is somewhat fixed, and whose needs never really vary much more than playing a little louder or a little softer. It is not at all unreasonable to attempt to design a pickup's specs to suit that player's needs such that onboard tonal adjustments are unnecessary. Doesn't happen all THAT often, though.

[David Schwab]

I like tone controls on guitars, but I know people who don't. My buddy doesn't even put them on the guitars he builds.

I use active tone controls on my basses, but on a passive bass, you can't duplicate that sound of the tone control rolled all the way down with your amp's shelving controls. A low pass filter with variable resonance will do it though.

[Sam Lee Guy]

I couldn't live without my rooster cap. Apart from that, it's useful to be able to tailor the sound easily, and the obvious way is with caps and resistors. I do know a couple of player, though who leave everything on 10 on the guitar and use pedals.

[GlennW]

LOL

Sam, how many uF's is your rooster cap?

[kevinT]

I see. I'm getting a better understanding. I'm the type that plays on 10 most of the time.

I guess i'll have to experiement to really get a grasp on using caps and resistors.

[GlennW]

I guess you're talking about a guitar. I've noticed that with a bass I like caps on a switch without a tone pot a lot better - seems to open up the sound for lack of a better description. I haven't tried caps and no tone pot on a guitar yet, but have a feeling a guitar would sound better with the pot.

Can back to add that playing with the pots on 10 does not sound the same as having no pots/caps (on a bass).

[David Schwab]

I see. I'm getting a better understanding. I'm the type that plays on 10 most of the time.

I like having a .02 cap and rolling it off to get that subtle mid boost, or that "woman tone" on the neck pickup.

I guess you're talking about a guitar. I've noticed that with a bass I like caps on a switch without a tone pot a lot better - seems to open up the sound for lack of a better description. I haven't tried caps and no tone pot on a guitar yet, but have a feeling a guitar would sound better with the pot.

Can back to add that playing with the pots on 10 does not sound the same as having no pots/caps (on a bass).

That's true. I used to use 1 Meg volume and tone pots when I was playing passive basses. I had a center off toggle on one to switch the cap out, and choose between two values.

[black_labb]

i thought i replied to this thread a while go, was trying to say that different amps have different sounds and tones. if you design a pup for a darker amp, and then use a brighter amp, the tone may well be too bright for them. there is tone controls on most amps, but there not always very useful, depending on the amp. for example on some amps, turning up the treble brings in a bit of overdrive and grit, but you may not want that.

im generally think that 1 meg pots are good, as you can get brighter than you need. i find the other values seem to make it so that you do play it on 10 all the time, which is pointless. might as well solder a resistor and cap to ground and save a few dollars. looks cleaner too (unless you already have a hole).

i didnt put a tone pot on the bass i made, basses cant get the shrill sound you can get from guitars, so i decided to let the signal go as is. it does have 2 pups, which can be wired in paralell or series and can be balanced in and out as well, so it should be fairly versatile.

[Mark Hammer]

It's worth experimenting with so-called "no-load" tone pots. One way to make them is to paint a thin layer of nail polish or some other hardy lacquer over the last bit of resistive strip on a pot. When the wiper gets to that point in its rotation, it will fail to make contact with the resistive strip and the pot will be effectively open-circuit; i.e., as if it wasn't there.

Another approach I used on one of my guitars was simply a 3-position toggle with either no cap to ground, or one of two alternate caps to ground. Very simple, VERY repeatable and predictable.

[Zhangliqun]

I see. I'm getting a better understanding. I'm the type that plays on 10 most of the time.

I guess i'll have to experiement to really get a grasp on using caps and resistors.

Even with the tone on 10, it's still bleeding away some of the treble. Cut the tone pot out of the circuit and it will sound noticeably brighter.

[SteikBacon]

Not used tone control earlier, but seem to be needing one now. Vary between .022 and .033 caps, need more time to decide which works best. Maybe experiment little with potmeter too, I also hear noticeably brighter tone with the tonecap out of circuit.

I have done LOTS of experiments with highpassfilter on volume control. If you use volume to control overdrive/clean you might like the balance better... I did. And because amps behave so different itīs good to have tone control treble sometimes.

[Mark Hammer]

The eternal judgment call when it comes to tone pots is the extent to which there should be ANY bleed when the tone is turned up to its brightest.

Part of the problem is that if you want to minimize audible treble bleed, you need to have a fairly high tone-pot resistance such that the tone cap represents a sort of "non-viable" path for signal to bleed off (e.g., 1M). Of course, the problem that creates is that in order to get to a resistance that permits treble bleed when you want it you need to either roll the damn tone pot waaaaaaayyyy down, or else have an exotic taper (reverse log might work) so that you get through the first 90% of the pot's resistance range quickly, and have at least 30% of the pot's rotation as usable range (i.e., within that 30% of rotation, changes in control position = audible changes in tone). The 1M reverse-log pot that many people feel compelled to buy for their MXR Distortion+ pedal clone or their DOD250 clones would probably work quite well there.

Since the objective is to have minimal audible treble bleed in the "wide-open" tone position, alternatively you can simply go with a smaller-value tone cap. So, a 500k tone pot in series with a .01uf cap will bleed off less audible treble than would 500k in series with .02uf. Of course, the problem this creates is that yu have limited capacity for producing muter tones at the level of the instrument itself. For some folks, this is no big deal, but for others it can be.

It is for all these reasons that attention has turned to "no-load" tone pots that become essentially open-circuit in the "wide-open" position. With, say, a 250k no-load tone pot, you could have the advantages of zero treble-bleed in the wide-open position, along with having the usable range of pot rotation expanded by virtue of the overall low pot resistance. You could even use a big value tone-cap without having to worry about the implications for "invisible" treble-bleed in the wide-open position.