Winders and tensioning methods??Bobbin placement?

[NightWinder]

After every thing in the book, I have spent the last 2 weeks preparing another winder. It is essentially a Lathe/Variable Speed. I needed this to keep up with continuous winding as I am the only on that winds my product, and from time to time when things are slammin I have some guys help with assembly- Heres the issue. After winding several coils, I quickly noticed the coil shape is perfect as usual, but....it seems like I can only get about 8.5k on the bobbin? With the other Jewlers Lathe I have no problem Getting 10k on the bobbin....Same speeds basically too. My thought? The J lathe has the collets level to the center of the chuck, But the Other lathe has about 1/4 more distance to the bobbin, and is slightly lower to the center of the bobbin. Now I've wound on some cork ball set ups in my time, But This one has me stumped. I'm also using the Tailstock with the new lathe setup. The other is without tailstock. I also thought that the tailsotock is letting the plate speed up, and slow down at certain times and I can hear this in the motor too.
Who's got some IdeaS???? I'm soo stressed about this.....I really need to get this going smoothly to get some product out....
Thanks for your time brothers!!
NW (Wade- MotorCity Pickups)

[Possum]

confused...

Can you take some photos of both? You are hand feeding these, no wire guide? I'm not understanding this clearly enough to comment, photos might help us all.

[chevalij]

Are you winding on both setups with the same spool / batch of wire? You must be talking what here, 1000+ wraps difference?

[kevinT]

You probably already thought of these but I'll throw them out. Two things that first come to mind is the OD of the wire and the speed at which you're winding.

Does the new machine have the same size dc power motor? Can you tell if you're winding at the same RPMs?

As Chevalij mentioned... is the wire from the same spool with the same diameter?

What about they way you're body is positioned relative to the new lathe. Is the design of the new lathe less ergonomic in that you're not able to apply as much tension when winding with the new machine? Do you have to position your arm differently in that you're not attaining the usual leverage so that you can apply the same tension as with the other machine....if that makes sense...something to think about.

Some images would help too.

[JGundry]

If you are counting from a reed switch you can use a DMM set to frequency to match the RPM between the 2 machines. A quick easy way to make sure both are running at the same RPM is to adjust the speed in the ball park of 1200 RPM then, if you are in a room with fluorescent lighting, slowly adjust the speed until the bobbin look like it is standing still. That will nail 1200 RPM quickly and easily.

[Zhangliqun]

Is this a P90 bobbin that can hold that much wire? Or are you talking 43 wire on a humbucker bobbin?

[NightWinder]

Is this a P90 bobbin that can hold that much wire? Or are you talking 43 wire on a humbucker bobbin?

Humbucker bobbins

[Possum]

....

Nitewinder you're not helping here. Are you winding from different locations in relation to the bobbin on the face plate? Meaning on one are you winding with your hand lower in relation to the axle the face plate is on? It would seem to me that if your hand position were higher above center that the pull from the bobbin will be higher because the bobbin is going away from you more rapidly than if you place your hand lower below center. So higher you'd be getting more tension from the pull and lower, less. So, bottom line is you have to adjust your hand tension for the new winder, what a pain in the butt eh?

[kevinT]

Nitewinder you're not helping here. Are you winding from different locations in relation to the bobbin on the face plate? Meaning on one are you winding with your hand lower in relation to the axle the face plate is on? It would seem to me that if your hand position were higher above center that the pull from the bobbin will be higher because the bobbin is going away from you more rapidly than if you place your hand lower below center. So higher you'd be getting more tension from the pull and lower, less. So, bottom line is you have to adjust your hand tension for the new winder, what a pain in the butt eh?

Yes....This is what i was getting at.

[NightWinder]

Nitewinder you're not helping here. Are you winding from different locations in relation to the bobbin on the face plate? Meaning on one are you winding with your hand lower in relation to the axle the face plate is on? It would seem to me that if your hand position were higher above center that the pull from the bobbin will be higher because the bobbin is going away from you more rapidly than if you place your hand lower below center. So higher you'd be getting more tension from the pull and lower, less. So, bottom line is you have to adjust your hand tension for the new winder, what a pain in the butt eh?

opp. Sorry. Its basically the same set up as Gundry- The Grizzly. Its just soo Different. The collets are an inch lower from the center of the faceplate. I even floored it to total speed 3,200 rpm and it seems wrong. So, yes I am winding lower than the axle. So, if I move it say...an inch above the axle it should increase the tension? MAn!! Pains....LOL . Also the reed switch limits out at the speed dial at 11 o'clock- just under 1,200 rpm.
The jewlers lathe is sooo quiet....You can hear the the tension in the wire. The grizzly is also louder....I'm just not used to this setup.
I have increased the tension in the wind too to near breaking throughout the whole wind? This is driving me nuts. I really wanted this to work....This is a totally different setup for me. I can't believe how good the jewlers lathe is compared to this. Its just flawlessly quiet and deadly accurate. Perhaps leveling the travers to slightly above the centre??

[JGundry]

It does not matter if your hand is lower or higher in relation to the axis of the bobbin technically. Think about it the bobbin is spinning on an axis, it does not care which way up or down is. What matters is the angle the wire breaks at either your hand or your guide rail. This angle is a function of the distance of the hand or rail from the axis of the bobbin. If you are tensioning with a clamp and felt and using a rail make sure the distance from the rail to the axis of the bobbin is the same for both machines and also make sure the angle that the wire breaks at from the back end of the rail to the tensioner is the same. If you are tensioning and guiding by hand make sure the you are approaching the bobbin at the same distance from the bobbin axis as before and make sure your grip is oriented the same in relation to the axis of the bobbin.

If your counter is bottoming out before 1200 RPM then something is either wrong with the reed switch, the counter or the set-up. Mine is dead accurate well above 1200 RPM. Nightwinder if you are ever in the Grand Rapids area and want to stop by and take a look at my winder let me know. Even bring your winder along and I will see if I can get the counter working right. Noise aside I think you should be able to get both machines to behave alike. The Grizzly is a little herky jerky at slow speeds and sounds like a loud sewing machine but if you are using one of those solid one piece, cast mini wood lathes it is impossible to beat for the price.

[NightWinder]

It does not matter if your hand is lower or higher in relation to the axis of the bobbin technically. Think about it the bobbin is spinning on an axis, it does not care which way up or down is. What matters is the angle the wire breaks at either your hand or your guide rail. This angle is a function of the distance of the hand or rail from the axis of the bobbin. If you are tensioning with a clamp and felt and using a rail make sure the distance from the rail to the axis of the bobbin is the same for both machines and also make sure the angle that the wire breaks at from the back end of the rail to the tensioner is the same. If you are tensioning and guiding by hand make sure the you are approaching the bobbin at the same distance from the bobbin axis as before and make sure your grip is oriented the same in relation to the axis of the bobbin.

If your counter is bottoming out before 1200 RPM then something is either wrong with the reed switch, the counter or the set-up. Mine is dead accurate well above 1200 RPM. Nightwinder if you are ever in the Grand Rapids area and want to stop by and take a look at my winder let me know. Even bring your winder along and I will see if I can get the counter working right. Noise aside I think you should be able to get both machines to behave alike. The Grizzly is a little herky jerky at slow speeds and sounds like a loud sewing machine but if you are using one of those solid one piece, cast mini wood lathes it is impossible to beat for the price.

Yeah, I kinda thought that the axis is centered so it would'nt matter much if you were a little high or low. I can see Possums thought as to higher as well because the bobbin would be turning away from you at as pitch that may increase the wire as it is turning backside. Good thoughts, but I think I may have a inch to much. That faceplate is 4', and the collets are about 3/4 of an inch away from the edge, about 1 3/4 to the center of the bobbin when mounted.... Funny the tinyist stuff makes a big difference something I can't let happen. I'll be winding tonight full throtle to get stuff out tomarrw afternoon so I think I'll be checking for wire consistencys throughout, but previous measurements were almost deadon. MWS PE 43 Min-nom is the questioned culprit now.
Like stated, I did wind a bobbin at full tilt by hand tensioning and pinched the shit out of the line so that would be around 3,200 rpm. I stopped when the bobbin looked right where I know the size very well and should be around 8k- Bobbin read out at 6.8k? 3/4 in distance would make that much difference? This may be a bunk batch of line.....
Thanks for everyones help and input- Much appreciated!!.
Jon- I will take you up on that too as woon as things slow down a bit : ) Thankyou. That was a nice gesture : )

[Possum]

Uh oh.....

Hey watch out for the MWS 43, I have a roll and when I wind it I have to use almost no tension and wind at slow speed or it shorts out and you get low readings. Maybe thats whats happening. Do you have an Extech LCR meter? That would tell you for sure if you're shorting that shit out....

[NightWinder]

YEs, I do. Theres no short in it, I did call Mws about this spool which was shipped with others so there is slight differences in the diameter, but he insisted that they have better ways of measuring with lasers and such for q&a supposedly and also Mic the wire. I told him they needed to mic it better because the #'s he gave me were different?

I'm down for a new supplier actually. I don't care if I pay more for shipping as long as its right and consistant!! Time for the London connection I suppose. Anyone got any issues with S.W.L? or any rave reviews??

[madialex]

Hey Night, you have a PM. Thanks