1022 rod...

[Possum]

Anyone have a source for small orders of 1022 3/16" cold drawn steel rod? My online searches only found two places neither of which respond. I haven't tried this material before and want to try slugs with it for another tone option....

[John_H]

I'll be by the metal supplier that I use later in the week. I'll see if they stock it, and what they do have. If it's a special order they wont do anything small. I'll let you know.

[Possum]

thanks.....

I'd appreciate that greatly. thanks...let me know

[cwood3]

Possum,

McMaster-Carr has ASTM A29, which is 1022 carbon steel, in 6' lengths. I believe their price is US$1.37 . You may wanna double check me, butA29, 1022 are all considered UNS G10220. Just thought I'd chime in here.

[pilotjones]

Not sure how set you are on getting exactly 1022- but if you just want low-carbon CD steel rod, McMaster will give you a 36" length of 1010 for $2.46. I'm guessing that magnetic properties might be same or very very similar.

[ edit ] Probably the same stuff you get from Home Depot.

[Possum]

...

I looked it up and ASTM A29 is about 1030, much too high carbon compared to 1022.....damn

[Possum]

mcmaster...

I have the Mcmaster stuff and it specified as 1006-1010 which means you don't know what it actually is, also its much lower carbon than 1022 which is 22 points of carbon, small changes in carbon content make for big audio changes....

[Possum]

more....

this is confusing, 1018 steel meets ASTM A29 specs, I guess it covers a wide variance in carbon content?

[pilotjones]

I have the Mcmaster stuff and it specified as 1006-1010 which means you don't know what it actually is, also its much lower carbon than 1022 which is 22 points of carbon, small changes in carbon content make for big audio changes....

IIRC, when you click through all the way to the final single part, it specifies 1010. But I may have misread.

I'm trying to learn here--is it proven that differences in carbon content create significant differences in the magnetic and electric (re resistance and eddy currents) properties? I've never looked it up, but while the carbon content affects grain size, I would have guessed that those properties would have been not as affected by a difference of .1% and .22% carbon, especially as these result in the same phases present in the steel (contrasted to once you pass the .3% barrier). Do you know a good source where I could read up on this?

RE A29, I'm not too familiar with that spec. I've specified tons (quite literally) of A36 and A50, but my concern there was the yield strength (which is 36 ksi and 50 ksi respectively), not the content analysis, and certainly not the magnetic properties!

[Possum]

....

Well theories all fall apart in this stuff, you might be able to see a small difference in an LCR's readings beteween the steels and I guarantee you won't find any information on carbon content and steel's effect on an audio electromagnetic device :-) But, I'll be the horse's mouth (not the other end...) for a moment. I had pole screws made a year ago in 1018 and 1022. The difference between the two is remarkable, 1018 is warmer a generally nice sounding, 1022 is hard and a bit unyielding feel, very noticeable difference. It works in some pickups and in others it can make the pickup sound a bit sterile and unforgiving. I want to try mixing steels but I don't have any 1022 flat or round stock to play with, so thats why I'm looking....

[pilotjones]

Wow, that's something that there was so much difference, especially for such a small difference in composition. I'm assuming that it was the same pickup in the same guitar, with just the polepieces changed.

Are you certain there wasn't another factor, such as CRS vs. HRS? And were both sets of screws demagnetized after machining? And (devil's advocate here), are you certain you got the steels you were told you got?

[Possum]

...

No, I'm not certain I got the steel I specified and I've wondered about that, but why would a screw maker use something different than asked for? I sure hope not. Yes it was the identical pickup, screws both made by the same company, swapped 'em out and instant new tone. The 1018 us noticeably softer than the 1022 too.

[Joe Gwinn]

Well theories all fall apart in this stuff, you might be able to see a small difference in an LCR's readings beteween the steels and I guarantee you won't find any information on carbon content and steel's effect on an audio electromagnetic device :-) But, I'll be the horse's mouth (not the other end...) for a moment. I had pole screws made a year ago in 1018 and 1022. The difference between the two is remarkable, 1018 is warmer a generally nice sounding, 1022 is hard and a bit unyielding feel, very noticeable difference. It works in some pickups and in others it can make the pickup sound a bit sterile and unforgiving. I want to try mixing steels but I don't have any 1022 flat or round stock to play with, so thats why I'm looking....

Have you tried even higher carbon content? For research? I'm thinking of water hardening steel, alloy "W-1", which contains ~1% carbon (0.90 to 1.05): http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=06010144. Another useful test would be to test both soft and hardened poles cut from the same piece of metal.

[pilotjones]

No, I'm not certain I got the steel I specified and I've wondered about that, but why would a screw maker use something different than asked for? I sure hope not. Yes it was the identical pickup, screws both made by the same company, swapped 'em out and instant new tone. The 1018 us noticeably softer than the 1022 too.

Did you demag the screws before installing? I'm just considering, what if one set is magnetized (which can happen as a result of machining), and the other isn't.


Interesting, I just looked up steel compositions, and found:

AISI#      C        Mn      
1017   .15-.20   .30-.60
1018   .15-.20   .60-.90
1019   .15-.20   .70-1.00
1020   .18-.23   .30-.60
1021   .18-.23   .60-.90
1022   .18-.23   .70-1.00

My thought is that a change in magnetic properties might be due to carbon content, manganese content, differences in effect of manufacturing due to these contents, differences in manufacturing method itself due to the contents, or maybe something we haven't thought of yet.

[pilotjones]

I looked it up and ASTM A29 is about 1030, much too high carbon compared to 1022.....damn

OK, I just looked up and found that ASTM A29 is a standard for bar stock (actual title: "ASTM A29/A29M-05 Standard Specification for Steel Bars, Carbon and Alloy, Hot-Wrought, General Requirements for"), and it includes all the compositions mentioned, and hundreds of others. So, A29 it is not a specification of composition.