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**David Schwab** · 04-17-2008, 03:22 AM

Originally posted by madialex View Post

I know exactly who used that in their ad copy, Good Fun Sunshine pickups better known as GFS

All their copy is a bit suspect. I've heard good things about the pickups from a few builders. I haven't tried them myself though, but some of their copy sounds like it was written by someone who doesn't know the subject.

**Possum** · 04-18-2008, 01:33 AM

oh well....

guess that was a hit and run post :-) I notice on Montreaux's new website he is selling Fat Tones, wonder if has a wholesale price. They are more expensive than GFS.

**Fat Tone Tommy** · 04-23-2008, 05:01 PM

Korean Plain Enamel

Yes, I am aware that good plain enamel wire is hard to find here in the USA these days. We tried and tried to have it made here and either it was bad or extremely expensive. Too expensive to keep us out of the USA made or Boutique price range. Fortunately we were able to find a good sample and have it duplicated over there. My winder, Samsung Music has this wire made specifically for Fat Tone and as I said in a previous post, Thank God he is quality and consistency driven, so I get what i want. Everything else there is poly nylon as in China. So far, we have had good luck with it as far as consistency and performance. I just tested 12 different Fat Model T Bridge (tele) pickups and 8 out of 12 read the exact same, 7.68k ohm DC. The others are all within .15k of this. Great consistency, i think. I have only had 1 defective pickup so far out of about 400, so i guess you could say that we are very happy with it. Also, we have yet to have an unsatisfied customer, which is great.

The beauty of the dealing with the Koreans is that they will happily strive to extremes to please the customer, if they know exactly what you want and you can make it clear to them. As well, if they understand that you won't accept inferior quality and it has to be the same all of the time.

**Fat Tone Tommy** · 04-23-2008, 05:08 PM

Montreux

Montreux has become a dealer and distributor for Fat Tone in Asia. along with his own stores, he is planning to set up dealers / stores in a total of 6 different Asian Countries. we do offer special distribution pricing to foreign distributors who are buying in larger quantities and handling dealer sales in their markets. They get a better price than Dealer 3 (end column wholesale) and they pay shipping and customs with packaged product FOB directly from Korea to them.

**Fat Tone Tommy** · 04-23-2008, 06:12 PM

Thanks from Fat Tone

Jason, sorry for the late reply and your's was greatly appreciated. I also thank you for holding me and everyone else to a higher level of professionalism in the biz. I have since removed the photos of the non current strat and tele production pickups from my website as they are misleading to potential customers as far as the higher quality of what we actually make. we are currently getting current new Hi Rez product photos done and they will be up soon. I am happy to send anyone pics of the current strat/tele pickups if they will email info@fattonepickups.com and just ask. i would love to send you some new pics, as my credibility in the industry means everything to me and I would like you to see what we really make. Thanks Again.

**access** · 04-30-2008, 11:23 PM

First Post!

Ive enjoyed reading on this forum for some time now, and thought I'd chime in after reading this post a while back. After reading this no one commented about the sound, so Here I go. I just recieved a set of the Fat Buckers from an online retailer in TN and installed them in a Les paul copy that has been upgraded quite a bit, and now is actually a pretty decent guitar for everyday playing.

The pickups came packaged VERY professionally and clean. I opted for the Zebra color and the bobbin color was good, not cartoonish, like some Ive seen. The pickup is 4 conductor so you can coil tap them (although I didnt) the color code is the same as Duncan so It was very easy to install them. One unique thing I noticed is that the red and white tap wires already had a tack of solder on them so you didnt have to do that one extra step in installing them in a standard setup.

I got the Vintage Fat bucker for the neck and the super fat bucker in the bridge.

The vintage was a sweet pickup for the guy who is used to that compressed midrange sound of a PAF and was really a nice choice for the neck position. It blossomed really nice with a hint of overdrive on it and I was definately getting "double tones" in the second position very similar to a real PAF.

The Super was a different story altogether, It has a real zippy snap to it and was real clean and loud in the highs, but the midrange was still really musical and full sounding.

You can tell this is a newer company because the wiring guide looked like it was printed on somebody's home computer printer, but it was accurate and easy to understand. It just looked a little lo-tech.

All in all, for $50 a piece no tax and no shipping, this was a GREAT deal. I looked for the loose wires Jason was talking about and didnt see anything out of place. Maybe he just got a bad one. But the two I recieved were excellent overall and definately worth more than I paid for them.

Im probably going to try the vintage tele set next.

But I hope this doesnt come across sounding like spam, Its really just one guys Review of a new product.

**Possum** · 05-01-2008, 02:33 AM

...its not just gauss....

In defense of real boutique products, I'll say this. Your humbuckers probably sound pretty good for $50 each. Quite honestly its pretty hard to make a really bad sounding humbucker, you aren't really going to find one that sounds awful, and thats a subjective assessment anyway. Even the cheapest ones are going to be useful and the fact that they are cheap is going to have an appeal to some who get a thrill out of finding the cheapest pickups and figuring out which ones sound pretty good. And hey, there are many players who really don't like an authentic vintage PAF too. No one is going to like everything out there...

On the other hand, an experience knowledgeable small pickup maker is going to far exceed a mass produced product. Humbuckers have a huge amount of variables in their design that take many years to master. I consider myself to have barely scratched the surface after five years of trying to figure out everything they can do, if that tells you anything. What the pole screws are made of, what the keeper/spacer is made of, what the slugs are made of, what the coil offset is if that is used, what dimensions of the bobbin i.e. coil height and thickness and number of winds are, what the cover material is and thickness, type of plating, what baseplate material, what type and dimension of magnet and how hot it is magnetized, what type of magnet wire and insulation, what type of hook up cable, what type of wind pattern and tension, ok I"ll stop there but probably missed something.....change any one of these things and you have changed the sound and character of the pickup.

A mass produced pickup is designed to have the broadest possible appeal, it will lack a certain character and stay in the middle of things. A boutique pickup made by a professional will be designed to hit a certain niche. EAch of its components will be chosen in the design process to product certain effects. The mass made pickup will be wound in a moderate way, the boutique is likely to be hand wound or using a proprietary wind that fits the design of the pickup. Anyway, so what does all this mean?

An EXPERIENCED professional player will hear and know the difference between a mass market pickup and one made to order by a pro winder. Your average guitar player sitting in Guitar Center banging out alot of noise and with not alot of ability or experience playing in a live group, basically cannot tell the difference between the two kinds of pickups. I"ve seen that time and time again. Not only that but a nonprofessional player can also make everything they play sound pretty bad, also seen that many times as well.

So what is the difference, really. Well, its the difference between a Volkswagen and a Mazzeratti. One is made for everyone to drive, the other is made for people who really know how to drive a performance car. Neither is better than the other, they both fit certain markets and needs. Boutique pickup makers tend to sell to more professional players who have educated ears and who play alot for money and make recordings. Anyway, this is a non-judgemental thing I'm saying here. Fat Tone pickups fit a certain market, boutique pickups fit a certain market, both fill a need, both are different from eachother. Boutique pickups cost alot more because they are not mass produced, they are usually made by one single person, a tone artisan, and take many more hours to make. Mass produced are made on an assembly line, little attention is paid to each single pickup, they are built as quickly and cheaply as possible using the most economic parts possible.....

OK, this probably pissed somebody off so let 'er rip :-)

**access** · 05-01-2008, 04:59 AM

Possum

One thing I learned in college is that life is nothing more than a series of variables, so yes I understand your convoluted point about how many seemingly minute details can alter the performance and sound of a pickup. However as a seasoned player myself I know the difference between a good performing pickup and a piece of mass produced garbage. Not to point out the obvious, but it looks as though you have a dog in this fight in as much as you produce pickups yourself. (And as you implied in your last post, charge handsomely for them)

All I was trying to do was offer perspective on this discussion by actually purchasing the product and give an honest review. It seems no one except myself has done this, and now I read a defensive and sarcastic remark by someone who is a competitor of this particular brand. Shame on you.

It seems the world of guitar products have polarized just as everything else in this country! You either are some piece of foreign made junk made by communists that want to kill America, or some hand crafted work of art, the likes of which that only the most enlightened can understand (Or those that choose to afford)

That being said, I like my $100 set of pickups, they are built well and have a voice that can hold its own against my Antiquities, my bare knuckles or my fralin's. It doesnt bother me that they may have been would by someone with yellow skin versus some white protestant. Its not about where they were made Its about HOW they were made and you shouldnt throw around opinions when you have nothing to base them on.

Sorry to sound so negative, It just stinks when you try to compliment something and get snippy remarks back.

**Spence** · 05-01-2008, 08:32 AM

The whole boutique argument gets me down. Bare Knuckles, Fralins and a whole host of others are not boutique. They are mass-produced regardless of method. Corners will be cut to speed up production.
If Fat Tone pickups do it for you that's great. That's $50 well spent. But one man's meat is another man's poison. You're not going to change anyone's opinion by writing a forceful answer to Possum's post. They'll just have to find out for themselves.
In any case the guitar world has always had it's label snobs and until Fat Tone joins the ranks of the big labels, it will always be a cheap foreign import.

**Possum** · 05-01-2008, 11:18 AM

:-)

Well I knew that if I made my statement that it would be read wrong and injected with something thats not there. Sarcasm? Where, I didn't wrinkle my nose when I wrote that:-)

Just made a statement that there is room for EVERY level of pricing and market for pickups, and that there IS a difference between a mass produced product and, ok, a HAND CRAFTED pickup. I don't like the "boutique" moniker much either. Fat Tone is no competition for me or Spence or any of us doing this. We are no competition to Fat Tone, we don't serve that market :-) Our pickups dont sound like Fat Tone pickups or anybody else's, they sound like OUR pickups and none of ours sound alike. I said nothing about them being made offshore? Any mass produced pickup you get what you pay for, I doubt that you can return it if you don't like it, or have it wound different or have Fat Tone change the magnets to a different alnico if you don't like the stock alnico 5 or whatever they use. A small pickup maker on the other will do all of that for you and back it up with a long warranty or exchange/rewind guarantee. A sole proprietor pickup maker will also discuss endlessly with you what you are trying to achieve in your tone needs. A small pickup maker will build a relationship with you over time and get to know what your tastes are and work with you and your gear to get what you want. THIS is why a handcrafted (I don't like that word either, ha...) pickup costs more than an off the shelf low priced product. And Spence is also correct that Fralin and those other guys are mass producing their products, they have a staff of hourly paid labor and they can sell way cheaper than I can; they buy supplies in bulk and make a much higher markup than us small businesses. I use materials that are way more expensive than the mass producers can afford to do, and I have a pretty complete shop where I cut and mill and use a lathe to make my buckers parts because no one makes anything remotely like I prefer to use in my pickups.

I think Fat Tone pickups are a great idea and will fill a niche and I'm sure he'll make money etc. But I don't think they will compare ultimately with an artisan made product and the accompanying services and customizing available. Ain't no sarcasm here :-) I have total respect for Fat Tone or GFS, they fill a need and they CARE about what they do the same as we do. If you go back earlier in this thread you'll see I said nothing against them. All I am trying to do is explain the difference and why a custom made pickup costs more and most likely WILL sound better. I have a very high repeat customer return rate and I"m sure they would agree. So, I don't have a "dog in this fight" because there isn't any fight, comprende amigo?

**Possum** · 05-01-2008, 11:45 AM

more blab....

ONe other thing about us small time entrepeneurial pickup makers is that alot of us make stuff you can't find anywhere else except at the individual pickup maker's shop. Where on earth are you going to find a laminated blade tele neck pickup except on my website? No one is nuts enough to make those except me and they take hours and hours to make just one. I have alot of offerings like that and even some designs no one has ever done anything similar. I do that stuff not because its profitable but because I like inventing stuff and finding new ways to manipulate tone. You will also find among us that we have specialties and knowledge and tricks you won't find anywhere else either. Mass pickup makers tend to come up with a line of pickups then they dont come up with much more than that or do much innovation in general. So, we can offer what you just can't get off the shelf anywhere else and because we put more time and more money into each pickup it does cost more. I don't know also about the other guys but my customers do tend to be pro players in general, so obviously they aren't finding what they want in the general market or they wouldn't be coming to me. No attitude in that but just the way it is.....

**kevinT** · 05-01-2008, 12:06 PM