Can a SC be out of phase with a HB?

[GlennW]

A bass has a single coil pickup and a split P-bass pickup.

No volume pots, no tone pots

Two individual 6-position rotary switches for each pickup; 1 position OFF, 5 positions ON with different caps or no cap.

When either pickup is on alone with no cap the volume is about the same as the other.

When both are on with no cap the volume drops and it sounds thinner.

It's kind of like two Strat pickups out of phase in parallel, weak sounding.

Should I reverse the leads on one pickup?

I didn't think it would matter since one is SC and he other is a HB, but maybe it does.

[Mark Hammer]

it would depend on how they are wired. For instance, if they are wired in series, then the SC pickup will always be out of phase with one of the coils in the HB. If the HB is wired in parallel with the SC, then there should not be any explicit cancellation.

Do keep in mind, though, that all pickups exhibit some cancellation when used in combination with others. After all, not all frequencies are equally represented above the sensing area of all pickups or in identical phase. In some cases a string may be in opposite phase above pickup A, relative to pickup B at a certain frequency. The tone we get from combining pickups is not just the sum of their signals, but also involves some cancellations as well. That might be part of what you're getting.

[Stan H]

Depends on the magnet polarity and winding direction. Apparently the p-bass coil that has the same mag polarity "up" as the SC is wound in the opposite direction than the SC.

[GlennW]

Thanks guys, I'll reverse the leads on the SC and see how it sounds.

[Stan H]

Thanks guys, I'll reverse the leads on the SC and see how it sounds.

That should work.

[GlennW]

That was a big improvement.

Thanks again.

[GlennW]

They make a good pair, sound better together than separate.

I think I need to ground the baseplate on the Hag pickup, it squeals something terrible when alone with no cap. I don't remember it doing that before I switched the leads. It did it a couple of times when I tested it last week just to see how it sounded.

[Sweetfinger]

it would depend on how they are wired. For instance, if they are wired in series, then the SC pickup will always be out of phase with one of the coils in the HB. If the HB is wired in parallel with the SC, then there should not be any explicit cancellation.

Huh?

[David Schwab]

I think I need to ground the baseplate on the Hag pickup, it squeals something terrible when alone with no cap. I don't remember it doing that before I switched the leads. It did it a couple of times when I tested it last week just to see how it sounded.

maybe the baseplate is connected to what is now the hot wire?

Switch it back and reverse the two wires from the P bass pickup.

[GlennW]

This is weird...now it doesn't squeal.

I tried to not have the baseplate in contact with any wiring. The black cover was pried off and broken a little, and the baseplate is stuck in place with Permatex silicone and I made sure to put a generous glob where it looked like it would make contact with a wire. Maybe there's a spot that sometimes makes contact since I use it for a thumbrest. The baseplate and copper strip around the coil weren't soldered to anything. I'm not even sure the copper strip is in there, but haven't seen it anywhere else so I guess it is.

That P pickup won't be staying...I think I've tried about 10 a few months ago and never warmed up to any. This was my fav, but I can't see going through this much trouble to tolerate it. Now I have the bright idea of of cutting down a couple of 1-piece Strat bobbins to 4 magnets each and try them. They'll fit under P covers easily.

The Hag pickup sounds pretty good.

[black_labb]

how does the single coil sound in that location? seems to be that it would be a bit boomy (just because i know basses tend to have their neck pickup closer to the bridge than on a guitar (in relation to the scale length, not physical distance).

sorry for going off topic, just curious.

[GlennW]

Sounds fine to me. It's much more clear sounding than the P pickup. It was dead and mangled when I got it. It's a later version of these (squared ends vs rounded ends).
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cools-60s-Hagstr...QQcmdZViewItem

I was thinking about adding a J bridge, but I like the way it looks without it. I got the bass cheap and figured it would be good way to use some pickups I've been saving in a drawer.

Edit: I stumbled upon a cure for the squeal. I use a Peavey PA head for bass and usually have the channel High and Mid knobs turned all the way CCW, and fiddle with the Bass knob a little. While testing it at some point I had them all at 12 o'clock to see how it sounded with everything flat. The squeal will happen with the Hag pickup and no cap when the Mid knob is past 9 o'clock. I don't know why it squeals, but now know how to stop it...might be a frequency thing.

[Mark Hammer]

Huh?

What can I say? My head is swimming with congestion from this stupid bronchial thing I have the last week and a half. You are absolutely correct to be puzzled by my response. Whether the HB is 2 coils in series or 2 coils in parallel has absolutely no bearing on whether the SC pickup would be in or out of phase with it.

The rest of what I said is true, though. SOME portion of the signal, no matter how small, will always be in a different phase-relationship with one pickup compared to any other. Part of that comes from the spacing between pickups, and is part of what provides the unique charm of different guitars.

[David Schwab]

What can I say? My head is swimming with congestion from this stupid bronchial thing I have the last week and a half. You are absolutely correct to be puzzled by my response. Whether the HB is 2 coils in series or 2 coils in parallel has absolutely no bearing on whether the SC pickup would be in or out of phase with it.

The rest of what I said is true, though. SOME portion of the signal, no matter how small, will always be in a different phase-relationship with one pickup compared to any other. Part of that comes from the spacing between pickups, and is part of what provides the unique charm of different guitars.

It's not a crazy thing to think though... a single coil is always out of phase with one of the two coils in a humbucker, except that we are presented with a composite signal from the two coils when it is in series which is either in or out of phase with the single coil.

It's absolutely correct to think that a parallel humbucker is really one coil in and one coil out in parallel with an additional single coil.

It's just in practice you don't notice it.

[Dave Kerr]

a single coil is always out of phase with one of the two coils in a humbucker

???
Only if the two coils of the humbucker are out of phase, right?