Some questions about vintage tele pickups

[corduroyew]

I’ve never been all that interested in Tele pickups, but I found some contradicting information and I wanted to find out who was correct.

According to Seymour Duncan the early Tele and Broadcaster pickups used formvar wire. According to the book Pickups, Windings and Magnets: ... And the Guitar Became Electric Tele pickups used PE wire from day one. Who is right?

Also, According to the book, for the first few months the pickups had larger diameter magnets. Then after about 6 months they went to smaller diameter magnets. Eventually when CBS took over they went to even smaller diameter magnets. They also go on to say that one of the changes between the original strat pickups and the Tele pickups were that the strat had "smaller diameter magnets" so I'm wondering. What was the actual diameter of the magnets over the years?

[David Schwab]

I don't have an answer.. but I think Duncan knows what he's talking about. He's actually rewound the things.

[GlennW]

From SK's old site (I printed it, and hope he doesn't object to me putting it here):

Tele Bridge
50-51 43 PE 8000 CCW 8.0 A5 North
51-64 42 PE 9200 CCW 7.5 A5 South
60s/70s 42 PE/Poly 7800 CCW 6.4 A5 South
Zinc plated steel basewplate until early '51, then copper plated steel (.05" thick)

[corduroyew]

I don't have an answer.. but I think Duncan knows what he's talking about. He's actually rewound the things.

That was my thought too, but everything I find elswhere seems to disagree. I don't suppose anybody here has any direct experiance with them?

[Magnetosaure]

If that can help, my 1951 Fender Lap Steel pickup is made using Plain Enamel... It's basically the same pickup as a Tele but without any baseplate.

[Sam Lee Guy]

Yes Seymour Duncan know what he talk about, but this a mistake. Early Tele pickup PE. Magnet size all over the place, not bigger than early Strat. Generally, magnet diameter 5.0mm average 1950-51, 4.9mm average till 1955,4.75- 4.8 avarage till 1964, then all 4.7mm but velly large tolerance on magnet diameter until 1964.

[corduroyew]

Yes Seymour Duncan know what he talk about, but this a mistake. Early Tele pickup PE. Magnet size all over the place, not bigger than early Strat. Generally, magnet diameter 5.0mm average 1950-51, 4.9mm average till 1955,4.75- 4.8 avarage till 1964, then all 4.7mm but velly large tolerance on magnet diameter until 1964.

Thanks for the help. I had copied the information of Seymours site about 3 years ago. I went back to find it after I made this thread and couldn't find it anymore so I'm guessing that bit of info has been removed changed. Clears up some confusion.

Have tele pickups always been made with PE then? Well... untill they started using poly anyway.

[soundmasterg]

Possum knows a bunch about these but maybe he's not into divulging his hard won knowledge, or just busy, or sleeping?

For my money, the early Broadcasters are the shit, and Possum nails those quite well. I get to hear a '51 nocaster on a regular basis and if I could have one guitar, that would be in the running for sure.

Greg

[Peter Naglitsch]

In the book "the Fender Telecaster, The detailed story of americas senior solid body electric guitar" bu A R Duchossoir (a very very detailed description of the Tele) it is stated that up until early 1950 even the bridge pup was wound with awg 43 PE with up to 10 000 turns. Have anyone encountered a Tele neck pup with awg 43 wire? And that many turns?

And the book states that Fender switched to Polysol in late 60's. Then PE again on vintage reissues and standard pups from the 80's and up to the date the book was published. As the rest of the book is very accurate I would put a bit of trust in hose facts. Duchossoir has really done some digging to come up with reliable information.

[David Schwab]

Have anyone encountered a Tele neck pup with awg 43 wire? And that many turns?

It was my understanding that they are still wound with 43.

[Sam Lee Guy]

Sam never see Tele pickup before 1980 with polysol wire, always PE with very rare exception of Formvar or polyester. Most 1950-51 43 PE up to over 12,000 turns and low as 9,000. 10,000 probably average for back pickup. Early magnet vary in type too - some Cobalt Steel , some Alnico. Find Blackguard book from JK Lutherie for good info!

[Possum]

...

I think Fender was using alot of different materials all at the same time. I rewound and still have in my posession a '51 Nocaster bridge, it was wound with 42 gauge wire and had A5 magnets, supposedly this pickup doesn't exist :-) but it does. Early pickup had thin formvar on the bottom and top as this one does, this makes a really unstable build and probably around '52 they went to thick formvar on the bottom. I think there is some evidence that 42 was also used on the neck once in a while as well.
I paid Greg to say all that but he forgot to put the Paypal BuyItNow button in the text so I want my money back!

[David Schwab]

Early pickup had thin formvar on the bottom...

Of course you meant to say forbon.

[Peter Naglitsch]

It was my understanding that they are still wound with 43.

Bridge, type-o

And as Possum said I have also hear about the agw 42 neck pickup, but there are not that many early Teles surfacing here in Sweden so I have very little first hand info on those.

Blackguard...have to find that book, thanx Sam

[Sam Lee Guy]

I think Fender was using alot of different materials all at the same time. I rewound and still have in my posession a '51 Nocaster bridge, it was wound with 42 gauge wire and had A5 magnets, supposedly this pickup doesn't exist :-) but it does. Early pickup had thin formvar on the bottom and top as this one does, this makes a really unstable build and probably around '52 they went to thick formvar on the bottom. I think there is some evidence that 42 was also used on the neck once in a while as well.
I paid Greg to say all that but he forgot to put the Paypal BuyItNow button in the text so I want my money back!

Hey, good plan Possum - put photo on ebay and when the buyer complain that it not arrive, tell him the pickup doesn't exist! Are you sure the magnet A5 and not cobalt steel? I seen a few like your description but with cobalt steel magnets, zinc plate, notches for wire, etc...