Few questions about plain enamel

[fjgaston]

Hello !
I wound few single coil pickups using formvar coated wire and polyester wire from stewmac (I'm not sure it's polyester ?!?)

I now want to wind humbucker pickups, I heard the best ones are the real PAF wound with Plain Enamel but it seems that Plain Enamel disappeared because of the benzene regulations.
My first question is : Is there some plain enamel wire good enought still available ?? where ??
Is the plain enamel available on http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com a real plain enamel or is it only a bad replica ???
I've never seen humbucker pickups wound with formvar. Why don't we use formvar for humbucker pickups ???
Are there good alternatives for plain enamel ???
On this web site http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/cu_enam.html they sell "enamelled coper wire", do you know what is that thing : "Standard Enamelled Copper Wire : No specific enamel." ???

Thank you very much

[Spence]

Speak to Jon Gundry but be warned, if you mention PAFs and Leesona 102 winding machines, you're in for a long night.

[SkinnyWire]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil

[JGundry]

Speak to Jon Gundry but be warned, if you mention PAFs and Leesona 102 winding machines, you're in for a long night.

Yes it will be a long night of history and the secrets of recreating the best PAF tones. I think Spence is really into fantasy fiction though so it probably would be a long night for him.

I suspect that the Mojotone wire is really MWS but don't know for sure. Spence should know where to get some of the last remaining stash of the benzene era wire but obviously does not want to give up the source. I don't either really. I have about 200lbs. of it sitting on a shelf smelling of majic markers though. Only for resale in the form of a pickup.

[fjgaston]

I red your post about the leesona 102 and PAFs, it's a great topic !!!!
If real benzene Plain Enamel can't be build anymore, what is the best alternative for humbucker winding ????
Is Formvar Ok or does it really sucks for Humbucker Pickups ???
What is wrong with MWS ??

[Spence]

Yes it will be a long night of history and the secrets of recreating the best PAF tones. I think Spence is really into fantasy fiction though so it probably would be a long night for him.

I suspect that the Mojotone wire is really MWS but don't know for sure. Spence should know where to get some of the last remaining stash of the benzene era wire but obviously does not want to give up the source. I don't either really. I have about 200lbs. of it sitting on a shelf smelling of majic markers though. Only for resale in the form of a pickup.

Don't be a prick Jon. You reckon you're an expert so try to be helpful instead of trying to be clever. If you have a 200 lb stash let the man have some as you're never going to use it.

[JGundry]

Don't be a prick Jon. You reckon you're an expert so try to be helpful instead of trying to be clever. If you have a 200 lb stash let the man have some as you're never going to use it.

Just following your lead Spence. Your setting such a fine example.

Not to worry the wire will be used for pickups. I wound a pair on the Leesona last weekend. They sound phenomenal if I do humbly say so myself. If you like I will post pics of the finished and updated machine.

Another tidbit about the Leesona for anyone that wants to experiment. Of the 3 original wire guides one is not perfectly machines where the ball bearing is seated. So you end up with a very minute wobble with each revolution of the wheel. A tiny and perfectly repeatable scatter that you couldn't do by hand. Just one of the many quirks of this machine that play a part in the PAF sound.

On the wire thing. The old formula stuff is great. The MWS stuff is better than no PE and is perfectly workable though. You can make great sounding pickups with it. The outside diameter tolerance of wire in PAF's varies quite a bit within the 42 AWG tolerance. Having a large stash of the correct wire gives me the flexibility to mismatch the outside diameter of the wire between the bobbins to match the mismatches I have seen in original PAF's. Plus there seems to be some mojo with the old formula but it probably has more to do with coating thickness than the formula but don't really know for sure.

[NightWinder]

THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF PLAIN ENAMEL WIRE. WITH TODAYS TECHNOLOGY AND TIGHT CONTROL IN THE MANIFACTURING PROCESS THERE IS NO ALARM OR DANGER OF REA NOT MAKING IT CORRECTLY AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO FOR MANY YEARS TO COME WITH ORIGINAL FORMULA.

WHO EVER TOLD YOU THERE WAS A SHORTAGE IS A PINHEAD!! oRDER YOURSELF SOME FROM MWS....
WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU GUYS GET YOUR INFO SOMETIMES IS BEYOND BELIEF....THIS PLACE USED TO HAVE SOME TRUTH TO IT!!

[kevinT]

If you like I will post pics of the finished and updated machine.

hi jon, i would like to see pics of the finished product. ...glad to see you got it up and running.

Another tidbit about the Leesona for anyone that wants to experiment. Of the 3 original wire guides one is not perfectly machines where the ball bearing is seated. So you end up with a very minute wobble with each revolution of the wheel. A tiny and perfectly repeatable scatter that you couldn't do by hand. Just one of the many quirks of this machine that play a part in the PAF sound..

The wobble was one of the things that i have taken into consideration as well in my winding formula.

[SkinnyWire]

Damn ... and here I've been trying to get mine to run WITHOUT any wobble. Guess that's enough of that.

[JGundry]

Only one of the tree guides shows any wobble. I do think it is a variable to play with I you are trying to come up with your own PAF formula.

I will post some pics in the next week or two when I get a chance.

[Possum]

shortage???

No, there is no shortage but there's only one company in the US making it now. There used to be 3 or 4 at least. REA's wire isn't as good as some Essex wire I have from back right before almost all of them quit making it. I know of one company that bought American Wire Corp's equipment and had their guys try to teach the new owners how to make PE....they couldn't do it and gave up so they won't make it. Elektrisola was working on doing some and I just heard they quit trying. Plain enamel isn't used by modern tech companies much anymore, its kind of a dinosaur. REA having a monopoly is a bad thing, I've heard stories of the bigger pickup companies buying a couple hundred pounds of their stuff and finding alot of it unuseable or substandard. So, no its not scarce but there's no guarantee that five-ten years from now anyone will be making it. Doesn't look good to me....

[Sam Lee Guy]

[QUOTE=JGundry;58123]Only one of the tree guides shows any wobble. /QUOTE]

Top of the mornin' to ya. Two fine fellows were out lookin' for a job and see a sign "tree fellers wanted" and one says to the other " what a shame there's only two of us!"

[JGundry]

[QUOTE=Sam Lee Guy;58136]

Only one of the tree guides shows any wobble. /QUOTE]

Top of the mornin' to ya. Two fine fellows were out lookin' for a job and see a sign "tree fellers wanted" and one says to the other " what a shame there's only two of us!"

Very funny. Translate tree to three.

[soundmasterg]

THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF PLAIN ENAMEL WIRE. WITH TODAYS TECHNOLOGY AND TIGHT CONTROL IN THE MANIFACTURING PROCESS THERE IS NO ALARM OR DANGER OF REA NOT MAKING IT CORRECTLY AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO FOR MANY YEARS TO COME WITH ORIGINAL FORMULA.

WHO EVER TOLD YOU THERE WAS A SHORTAGE IS A PINHEAD!! oRDER YOURSELF SOME FROM MWS....
WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU GUYS GET YOUR INFO SOMETIMES IS BEYOND BELIEF....THIS PLACE USED TO HAVE SOME TRUTH TO IT!!

This place is usually a pretty civil place with most people not resorting to shouting and swearing to get their point across too.

Greg