PE and me...

[PoorMan]

Well...I don't get it. Maybe it's a personal preference thing or I'm just the black sheep of the herd, but time and time again I prefer the tonal characteristics of SPN wire on my 'buckers.

I'm curious to what you all perfer. PE is clearly the preferred wire by most, but is that because that's what your customer's want? What's your personal preference?

PE obviously winds onto the bobbins very differently than SPN. It's not nearly as slick, so I'm wondering if it's something about the way I wind PE? Am I missing something?

[SkinnyWire]

You're not missing a thing. Most of the arguments in favor of PE boil down to image over substance, despite what you're about to read here.

[chevalij]

Depending on the pickup, they both have pefectly acceptable uses. I think a large part of it is the sales pitch. People know certain pickups were wound with PE and that's what they want. Sure, the poly may sound better, but it's not authentic!

[kevinT]

To me, each insulation type has it own tonal differences....i personally can hear it despite whether others can. And i only use PE for my vintage stuff. My modern pickup models use SPN exclusively....not because it is cheaper but because i like the way it sounds and that is how i designed the particular pickup to sound that way.

IMO, PE has more of a gritty dirty distortion when you have the distortion/gain turned up. but sounds really woody/organic when playing clean.

SPN seems to me to be a bit smoother or not as edgy. It also makes the tone of the pickup punchy (if that makes sense) i guess becuase of way it hits the signal hits the amp. ...as always that is just my opinion.

[chevalij]

When I first started winding, I was reading all these comments about PE vs formvar and I thought people were absolutely nuts. Having a fairly lengthy electrical background, I could see no way an insulation could affect sound. I can hear a difference now. It may only be due to the insulation thickness between say, 42 HF and 42 PE, but I hear it. That or I'm now brainwashed and part of some bizarre cult. I have to go now, the comet's nearly here and I haven't cut my nuts off yet.

[PoorMan]

I find I get more "character" with SPN--more overtones.

[Possum]

it is different....

There is a proveable scientific difference between PE and poly wire and that is the dielectric efficiency of the insulation. This has been discussed before and it is the reason that different insulation types of wire sound different. Unfortunately no one has been able to find any specs on the dielectric of PE anywhere, weird. So its not a guitar myth. You can see this easily by winding two identical coils with different wire and using an LCR meter, the differences DO show up there on the meter. I originally used to think it was all myth but after my own experiments I know its not.

[SteikBacon]

I wrote this from somewhere. Formvar, Dielectric constant 3,71, PE is similar. Probably from this forum.

The dielectric constant is higher in poly.

Im not sure I hear the differences yet, but guess it´s because I don´t have enough experience. But there were difference between HF and single poly. So I guess I´m learning to tune my ear to know what to look for... eh, hear for

[Spence]

Talk of sales pitch and hype....hum. Forget all that crap. It shouldn't be about sales pitch. If someone would like a pickup to sound like an old pickup that was wound with PE then SPN wouldn't be the right thing to use...and vice versa. Some of us also repair old pickups. Using the right wire is a requirement not just a nicety.

A friend of mine was telling me that he knows someone who uses timbers that were cut and dried during the time Stradivarius violins were made, for making new violins. Some people think that this wood should be reserved purely for repairing old stringed instruments, especially as the guy making new violins with it isn't any good at the job.

So I'm firmly in the camp that says don't use plain eneamel unless you have to. Everyone rush out and get SPN too because one day that will be rare and vintage.

[PoorMan]

Everyone rush out and get SPN too because one day that will be rare and vintage.

I have a nice 8 lb spool of 2006 SPN at home. It's the only way to capture the vintage tone of 2006. I'll sell it to you for the bargain price of $1,500, Spence.

[chevalij]

I don't necessarily agree that dialectric properties of insulation would have anything to do with sound. Pickups put out millivolts and almost any insulation would prevent conduction. Magnetic fields don't give a damn about insulation type (unless it has ferrous components, which kind of ruins the whole insulation bit). The only thing I can see is that different insulation will have different thicknesses. This will affect the distance between wraps and will have major effect on all the tonal characteristics. If I'm missing something, please fill me in.

[Spence]

Poorman, I also have a collection of SPN. I'm keeping it for the same reasons.
Maybe I may launch a vintage SPN bucker in twenty years time 08-28's or something like that.

Chevalij, in this day and age, asking on an open forum for someone to fill you in is asking for trouble....

[David Schwab]

When I first started winding, I was reading all these comments about PE vs formvar and I thought people were absolutely nuts. Having a fairly lengthy electrical background, I could see no way an insulation could affect sound. I can hear a difference now. It may only be due to the insulation thickness between say, 42 HF and 42 PE, but I hear it. That or I'm now brainwashed and part of some bizarre cult. I have to go now, the comet's nearly here and I haven't cut my nuts off yet.

It could also be that each insulation has a slightly different dielectric constant? That would change the capacitance, I would think, as would insulation thickness. The magnetic field has nothing to do with the insulation, but the electrons moving in the wire does.

I thought it was crazy that wax potting would affect the tone, since the wire is insulated from the wax, but apparently it does.

I think the human ear/brain is more sensitive to certain things than we would expect. I've read that some people are even able to hear differences in phase (polarity) ... I know years ago when I had phase switches on my instruments, I noticed I could hear a difference when one pickup was soloed, and I switched the switch. I couldn't describe what I heard, but something was different. In the end it didn't matter at all, but it was interesting.

Same thing with digital recording. Initinally it was assumed we don't hear past 20KHz, so we might as well use a brick wall filter to cut off anything above that. But then it was found that we do use higher frequency and phase information, even though it's not something we can "hear."

[PoorMan]

Poorman, I also have a collection of SPN. I'm keeping it for the same reasons.
Maybe I may launch a vintage SPN bucker in twenty years time 08-28's or something like that.

Chevalij, in this day and age, asking on an open forum for someone to fill you in is asking for trouble....

ROTFLMAO!!!!

[chevalij]

Spence, I said fill me in, not fill me UP! And all this from a man with a sheep. That always sounds plural, sheep. Is a singular one a ship?