59 strat pickup

[mkat]

Who gains the most indicates who the stakeholders are in messes like this. C0nsp1racy theory is a funny term that seems to never be directed in an effective manner if at all toward the deliberate narrow minded line pumping through the m.a.s.s m.e.d.i.a. An opinion questioning this becomes a c0nsp1racy theory regardless of how sensible the questioning is. It's not surprising the education system pretends to teach open minded approaches with strategies that are designed to close them. Apart from open minded approaches in tasks which increase profit and power that is.

[MattT]

You have to have roots. Many younger musician's roots only go back to the 90's. If you go back to the 60's, and then check out who Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, etc., listened to, and then check out who those influences listened to, then you have some musical knowledge.

That's exactly it David. It started when I heard Eric Johnson liked Wes Montgomery and I loved EJ's Wes-inspired tunes (East Wes, Manhattan, Hesitant, etc.) so I bought some old Wes and was blown away. Then I just looked for other 'big' names of that genre/era. Django is def on my list! I also might try some old R&B...some great talent in that genre...voices so good they give you goose bumps (and I recently learned that Aretha was beautiful in her youth...never knew that). I'm about bluesed-out though...just too much of a good thing over the years.

[David Schwab]

That's exactly it David. It started when I heard Eric Johnson liked Wes Montgomery and I loved EJ's Wes-inspired tunes (East Wes, Manhattan, Hesitant, etc.) so I bought some old Wes and was blown away. Then I just looked for other 'big' names of that genre/era. Django is def on my list! I also might try some old R&B...some great talent in that genre...voices so good they give you goose bumps (and I recently learned that Aretha was beautiful in her youth...never knew that). I'm about bluesed-out though...just too much of a good thing over the years.

While you are at it... Joe Pass! I heard a Newport Jazz record when I was young with Joe playing solo.. man he just smoked! A more recent guitarist in a similar vein is Jimmy Bruno.

The very first song I played in front of people was Aretha's Rock Steady... great bass part by Chuck Rainey, but I didn't know who he was back then. It was 7th grade, and I had my '68 Kawai Concert (Teisco) bass, and my 60's vintage Ampeg B-15N (nice amp for a kid to have!)

Oh yeah...

[dazzlindino]

This thread proves one thing, that while the girls were winding they were talking about everything and anything except "pickups", putting in their time so they could punch out and go the F to the house....
What about the people who made the parts of the rest of the guitar, guess they were none too special....Gee its just a Strat...
but dem pickemups..yaozaa...
And why dont Jaguar etc. pickups and the rest of the Fender line not hold as much cred., guess the girls didnt wind those in a special fashion eh?

[Mark Hammer]

It's a fairly standard observation in cognitive and linguistic development that kids know how to DO something, long before they know how to explain it. That's not to say that somehow intuitive understanding is superior to conscious declarative knowledge, or vice versa for that matter. It's just that being able to describe something you do tends to follow having done it for a while. Pay attention the next time you notice a marked improvement in how you play a particular video-game. You'll HAVE the improvement long before you're able to say what the improvement is or how you do it.

The great thing about conscious awareness is that it allows you to deconstruct how you do what you do and improve upon it, assuming your awareness is accurate and you are motivated. That's one of the reasons why you'll never understand anything quite so well as when you have to teach it (and one of the reasons why I have learned so much from the tens of thousands of posts I've made responding to queries here and elsewhere). Those people you used to ask for help in high school or college because they were "whizzes"? They were actually whizzes precisely because you ask them to explain stuff.

At the same time, anyone with a modicum of training in social cognition knows that humans are appalling bad evaluators of their own motivation, often thinking they do things for reasons that can be empirically demonstrated to be minimally relevant and overlooking factors that are clearly linked to their behaviour. So, being conscious and deliberate is not necessarily better or necessarily worse.

Really and truly, the whole history of science is a very long narrative about human hunches; which ones were pretty close, and which ones were hopelessly naive.

The other VERY essential element to this thread is that there is nothing absolutely necessary to the sound of a pickup or even a guitar. What there is...is precedent. If we feel that the old methods and materials are the best, it's because - as the first electric guitar sounds - we became somewhat "imprinted" on them and treat them as the benchmark, simply because they came first. Not that there wasn't some empirical trial and error during their development, but once the signature sound was established, it's not like we were going to be that able to find anything else quite as attractive to our ears.

[mick]

"What about the people who made the parts of the rest of the guitar, guess they were none too special....Gee its just a Strat...
but dem pickemups..yaozaa..."

Well I guess that could be because this is the pickup winders forum , not the neck building or guitar body painting forum...

"And why dont Jaguar etc. pickups and the rest of the Fender line not hold as much cred., guess the girls didnt wind those in a special fashion eh?"

They probably did , but it's likely because those guitars were not as popular as strats and tele's ..

Mick

[dazzlindino]

Every part of a guitar is discussed in this "pickup" forum, relating to what is the tone chain.
Didnt realize we were talking about popular, thought we were talking about "good".
So I guess Menudo are also " Good" eh Mick, see'enz how they were popular and all.

[David Schwab]

This thread proves one thing, that while the girls were winding they were talking about everything and anything except "pickups", putting in their time so they could punch out and go the F to the house....
What about the people who made the parts of the rest of the guitar, guess they were none too special....Gee its just a Strat...
but dem pickemups..yaozaa...
And why dont Jaguar etc. pickups and the rest of the Fender line not hold as much cred., guess the girls didnt wind those in a special fashion eh?

The point is, old strat pickups don't sound like new strat pickups, while the rest of the guitar has not changed all that much. So people here want to know what's different about them.

Jaguars are very bright sounding, some people don't like that. It's those metal combs on the pickups. Notice the new ones have humbuckers? And it was Fender's top of the line model, so it was more expensive. Jazzmasters were more mellow sounding. I guess neither guitar had that rock and roll tone people wanted. Though Jazzmaster have held up well, and were used a lot more than Jaguars.

A lot of it is perception. You don't see people going nuts over old Mustang pickups, even though they are pretty much the same as Strat pickups. So a lot of it is hype.

I don't see why an old Strat should sell for $20,000, but they do. A freind of mine has a '66 he had since it was new. It's a nice guitar, and has a very mellow tone compared to his newer Strat. But it's not $20,000 nice! He mostly plays the new one with Lace sensors.

[bbsailor]

Perspectives

The point is, old strat pickups don't sound like new strat pickups, while the rest of the guitar has not changed all that much. So people here want to know what's different about them.

Jaguars are very bright sounding, some people don't like that. It's those metal combs on the pickups. Notice the new ones have humbuckers? And it was Fender's top of the line model, so it was more expensive. Jazzmasters were more mellow sounding. I guess neither guitar had that rock and roll tone people wanted. Though Jazzmaster have held up well, and were used a lot more than Jaguars.

A lot of it is perception. You don't see people going nuts over old Mustang pickups, even though they are pretty much the same as Strat pickups. So a lot of it is hype.

I don't see why an old Strat should sell for $20,000, but they do. A freind of mine has a '66 he had since it was new. It's a nice guitar, and has a very mellow tone compared to his newer Strat. But it's not $20,000 nice! He mostly plays the new one with Lace sensors.

David,

It's the difference between looking back on something and trying to analyze it from a more removed perspective versus living and experiencing it in real time without the time perspective.

The music we grew up with and the sounds that have been imprinted on our experiences are markers of nostalgia. Every generation discovers a new set of these things for themselves.

Some music seems to span one or more generations as it has a more broad musical or sound influence.

With age comes the wisdom or desire to analyze why we like something. Then we use whatever scientific tools or thinking we can find that can help describe why something is happening, sounds good or bad.

Some human voices can make certain songs come alive, just as certain guitar pickup sounds can make a guitar sound alive, dead, dull, shrill, harsh or tasty.

The bottom line is that music is experienced in our ears in the present, processed by our brains, stored in our memory and later compared to new things we hear in the present.

The fathers of the electric guitar sound (Fender, Lover, etc.) simply set out to build what sounded good to them and the people around them. They sought to replicate it as best they could to produce a consistent result.

We probably know more about the theory of what they were doing back then with today's advanced scientific methods and language, but the final results are still in our ears. What sound good is not something that can be defined by science, only analyzed once we all know or agree on what it is, if that is ever possible?

I was 14 in 1959 and still have fond memories of that time and the sounds of my friend's Stratcoater, hum and all.

Joseph Rogowski

[David Schwab]

David,

It's the difference between looking back on something and trying to analyze it from a more removed perspective versus living and experiencing it in real time without the time perspective.

The music we grew up with and the sounds that have been imprinted on our experiences are markers of nostalgia. Every generation discovers a new set of these things for themselves.

Some music seems to span one or more generations as it has a more broad musical or sound influence.

Oh I agree 100%. The Jaguar ended up being used in a lot of surf music. I'm not sure what Leo's intention was for it. The shield around the pickup was something he redid with the G&L pickups.

I was 14 in 1959 and still have fond memories of that time and the sounds of my friend's Stratcoater, hum and all.

Joseph Rogowski

I was 2, but I remember in my teens hanging out at my cousin's studio, and it was all very exiting. He ended up giving me my first good amp, a 60's B-15N.

I still have certain tones in my head from the music I heard growing up when I play.

[madialex]

Every part of a guitar is discussed in this "pickup" forum, relating to what is the tone chain.
Didnt realize we were talking about popular, thought we were talking about "good".
So I guess Menudo are also " Good" eh Mick, see'enz how they were popular and all.

Troll Alert.........

[NightWinder]

Check this movie out (if you have'nt already)

Oh they get worse than that. Then they attack the person making the claims. They can't touch the data, so they go after the person who compiled the data!



Let's just remember that the person in charge of security at the WTC, was... (drum roll please) Marvin Bush! Youngest son of George and Barbara. How very odd.

I don't care what anyone says.. on 9/11 I worked just blocks from the WTC, and my wife worked in one of the neighboring building. Another friend worked in the Tower 1 (Lehman Bros). She was getting coffee downstairs when the first plane hit.

Building 7 was not damaged by the planes, and was a bit too far to have been damaged by the towers collapse. All the building between WTC 7 and the towers were untouched. Yet WTC 7 fell down with a boom. If it had been wired up with explosives, it would have taken weeks of planning.

The BBC had a reporter on live TV announcing that building 7 had just collapsed, yet you could see it in the background, still standing, over her shoulder! But that's the announcement she was given to read... a bit premature I guess. You can find that video on YouTube.

Just google Marvin Bush for some interesting information, such as 9/11 Security Courtesy of Marvin Bush

Near the bottom of that page they have the quote:


and a link about "Jackasses With Bullhorns: "WTC 2 is secure!"

I can attest that this is true. My wife was told to go back to her desk after the first tower came down. She refused and went running up the street.. one of those people you saw covered in white soot. She said there were a number of very loud explosions right before the towers came down.

I also knew a flight attendant on one of the planes and a firefighter that was never found. We must question the official story, because some things just don't add up.




Exactly. The thing is they are assuming they have to travel a great distance to get here. But they aren't. Evidence of that is that they have been here for thousands of years. it makes no sense to keep coming to a place over and over for that length of time. Even if they were coming here since the late 40's, that's still a long time and a lot of resources spent.

No, there's another answer that's too abstract for us to understand.

I'm reading a good book by Rick Strassman, MD, called "DMT the Spirit Molecule." Dr. Strassman started redoing research on psychedelics that was abandoned back in the 60's. He found that test subjects given control doses of DMT all have very similar experiences, including interacting with "intelligent nonhuman presences, especially 'aliens'" and insect looking beings. He said DMT is linked to the pineal gland, which is also considered by Hindus as the seventh chakra. His conclusion is that the things people experience on this drug are real, and need more study.

So they are really here all along... we just don't see them until they want us to. What does that mean, and why? That's the big question.

OK back to pickups... or not.

911...the power of the church...Mainly man delusions and evil doings to control society at its best.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

[David Schwab]

911...the power of the church...Mainly man delusions and evil doings to control society at its best.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

There's a great book called "the Gods of Eden" by William Bramley from 1992. It's the same basic premise. Excellent book.

Here's some info on the book. This guy is an economist, using a pseudonym, so he really stared out writing a book on how war is always about financial gain... until he found it isn't!

http://www.serendipity.li/eden.html

"Attorney William Bramley ... spent seven years trying to understand the root causes of war before finally disclosing his startling conclusions in The Gods of Eden. Here, Bramley reveals that UFOs, or the 'gods' and other strange beings associated with UFOs, may have shaped human society from deepest antiquity. 'UFOs have been lurking in the shadows of history for centuries,' he says. 'Surprisingly, they may be a key to unravelling the human puzzle.' Readers of Zecharia Sitchin will find many familiar themes in Bramley's analysis."

"Bramley was not interested in UFOs when he started researching the origins of human warfare. However, his research eventually led him to what he shares in this book: evidence that alien visitors have conspired to dominate humankind through violence and chaos since the beginning of time."

[Possum]

...

Well who do you believe? there is the argument that UFOs are guiding humanity and watching our progress, manipulating the genetic progress etc. Pretty much every spiritual camp with any credability all agree that Earth is a spiritual school for learning. those little grey guys maybe are just the hall monitors so to speak. I get really suspiscious when someone comes out with some really negative information on this stuff, the documentary recently on PBS trying to make us believe that every UFO ever sighted in all history are Skunkworks projects, pointed out that alot of the high officials in early UFO organizations, were ex-CIA officials! I think Keyhoe is one they mentioned. Why does this not surprise me? Why would they be operating any differently now? I also get suspiscious when someone goes out of their way to paint anyone as dangerous and highly negative, like ET's are supposed to be by some of these type books. Governments do the same thing when they want to start wars, by dehumanizing the opposition. Usually means they have something we want to the point of killing them for it. Like oil. So what do ET's have that "we" want? Why should we take anyone's word for it that we're supposed to be afraid of them? All that is pretty clear to me is that our planet is being monitored heavily and always has been.

[John_H]

Aliens wear clever disguises, and mingle with us on a daily basis.