Way newb question re. magnetic orientation

[mAgNeToNo]

Right-o...here comes the newb with the question for the pros - whom I all salute and are glad to meet right here, right now

Back to the issue at hand

I have a difficulty understanding what happens when I flip the magnet in a humbucker pickup vs. turning the whole darn thing around - and moreover...should bridge and neck pickups have the same magnetic direction (orientation) or not?

And since I'm on a roll I'll ask one more question, if I may: I have been suggested by someone who claims to know :-/ (because he has a real, albeit salvaged, '58 lester) that with a 4 conductor pickup, wiring with the "inside leads" (the ones that are usually taped together) sounds "better", whatever this unscientific claim means. Fact or fiction?

Appreciate the help of all the folks in the know

Kind Regards,

MgNTN

[David Schwab]

I have a difficulty understanding what happens when I flip the magnet in a humbucker pickup vs. turning the whole darn thing around - and moreover...should bridge and neck pickups have the same magnetic direction (orientation) or not?

You have to remember that the coils are wound in a certain direction, they have an electrical phase. The magnet gives each coil a magnetic phase. So the way a humbucker works is each coil is wired up out of phase with the other coil. But then each coil has an opposite magnetic polarity, so while one coil senses the string "coming", the other senses the string "going". So they are sensing the string out of phase from one another... but then since they are wired out of phase, they are back IN phase. However, electrical interference is sensed by both coils the same, since it doesn't rely on the magnets, so it's canceled out.

So, by flipping the magnet, you reverse the phase of the pickup. But you didn't change the wiring. If you leave the magnet the same, and reverse the output wires, you also reverse the phase of the pickup.

There's really no difference between the two.

And since I'm on a roll I'll ask one more question, if I may: I have been suggested by someone who claims to know :-/ (because he has a real, albeit salvaged, '58 lester) that with a 4 conductor pickup, wiring with the "inside leads" (the ones that are usually taped together) sounds "better", whatever this unscientific claim means. Fact or fiction?

The outside leads are usually taped together. The start leads are the hot and ground.

I think it's probably fiction, however, some feel that if the poles or magnets are grounded as they are in a humbucker, and the hot side of the pickup is the inside, you might have more capacitance so you might loose some highs.

However... on a humbucker one coil's start is ground, and the other start is hot... unless they are wound in opposite directions, and they aren't usually. Also there's more space between the poles and coil wire then on Fender pickups.

It could also be that the pickup was wired up poorly or had a short.

[mAgNeToNo]

...
So, by flipping the magnet, you reverse the phase of the pickup. But you didn't change the wiring. If you leave the magnet the same, and reverse the output wires, you also reverse the phase of the pickup.

There's really no difference between the two.
.....

Understood...thx.

So do both pickups usually have the same magnetic orientation??

This is something that confuses me, because apparently if you want to rig your plank with 2 HBs and 5 way switching, some tell you to flip the neck magnet (why the neck then?), but then again, the Peter Green / Gary Moore LP had that special mid-position tone because of a wiring "mistake" - namely the neck magnet was flipped (and the pickup reversed) - as Hamer guitars wrote in a very old interview.

MgNTN

[David Schwab]

Understood...thx.

So do both pickups usually have the same magnetic orientation??

They don't have to. If they are humbuckers, you are getting the composite of both coils. As long as the two pickups are in phase, it doesn't matter.

This is something that confuses me, because apparently if you want to rig your plank with 2 HBs and 5 way switching, some tell you to flip the neck magnet (why the neck then?),

If you want to get two single coils from the humbuckers, and have them in phase, and hum canceling, then the magnets need to be opposite.

but then again, the Peter Green / Gary Moore LP had that special mid-position tone because of a wiring "mistake" - namely the neck magnet was flipped (and the pickup reversed) - as Hamer guitars wrote in a very old interview.

The pickups were out of phase. There's nothing "special" about it. The three pickup Les Pauls and SG's had a middle out-of-phase setting.

On the Dire Straights song "Money for Nothing" he has the pickups on his Les Paul out-of-phase.

That's how I got started at guitar repair.. I was messing with one of my first electric guitars... a Sekova Les Paul Custom copy, and I accidentally wired the pickups out of phase. I thought it was cool, so I put a phase switch on the guitar. Then I had a few friends that wanted the same thing, so I started doing it to their guitars. I didn't know what a phase switch was, or if anyone did that (Fender Mustangs did) but it was a neat discovery for a 13 year old.