P-90 Machine Wound

[JGundry]

With the entire machine wound thing I have been concentrating on PAF's. But I know that P-90's were being machine wound as far back as 1955 as I have one that have a 1955 P-90 that is without question machine wound. Knowing that Gibson had Leesona 102's as far back as the late 40's I conclude that P-90's were as a rule machine wound. Does anyone else have an opinion about this?

[Dave Kerr]

With such a short bobbin, I wonder if the Leesona's wobble (happens mostly at each end of the traverse, right?) makes that machine wind more like a hand wound in terms of scatter/variability of pattern? Apart from that, how can you definitively say it's machine wound, and does it make sense to extrapolate their routine method from 1 sample made in 1955?

I ask these questions because I don't know the answers to them btw - I'm not a lawyer.

[JGundry]

With such a short bobbin, I wonder if the Leesona's wobble (happens mostly at each end of the traverse, right?) makes that machine wind more like a hand wound in terms of scatter/variability of pattern? Apart from that, how can you definitively say it's machine wound, and does it make sense to extrapolate their routine method from 1 sample made in 1955?

I ask these questions because I don't know the answers to them btw - I'm not a lawyer.

We are still dealing with a the same height coil former as a PAF bobbin with a P-90. It's not exactly wobble at the ends of the traverse, just no movement from the wire guide as the machine decides to change the direction of the traverse. This translates to coil guided scatter at the top and bottom of the bobbin. The runout of the chuck also has some tell tale signs in the coil shape. Everything I see with this pickups is consistent with the Leesona 102. I'm quite sure it was machine wound. But maybe this is a fake that just happens to mimic a Leesona 102 traverse perfectly. Seems unlikely though considering how cheap vintage P-90's still are. And how few Leesona 102's there are.

But the point of the post was to get the opinions of others concerning P-90's being machine wound. So yes I'm looking for a broader sample. I don't see why Gibson would be hand winding if they had machines already making P-90's. But maybe the routine at Gibson was to make the poorest use of manpower and only resort to efficient manufacturing methods when they had to. I kind of doubt it though.

[Dave Kerr]

I don't see why Gibson would be hand winding if they had machines already making P-90's.

Of course not, and I'd still be inclined to agree even if you turned up a different vintage P90 that looked to be hand wound - you'd think that they'd automate the bulk of their production if the end result met their QC guidelines, and would resort to hand-winding as a stop-gap due to machine downtime, etc.

[JGundry]

Of course not, and I'd still be inclined to agree even if you turned up a different vintage P90 that looked to be hand wound - you'd think that they'd automate the bulk of their production if the end result met their QC guidelines, and would resort to hand-winding as a stop-gap due to machine downtime, etc.

Sure that is possible. But it assumes that the need for pickups was so high that the machines could not keep up even if they ran the machines full time 5 days a week. Considering the amount and variety of pickups that Seymour Duncan is able to make with just one operational Leesona 102 I kind of doubt the need to hand wind would have ever come up at Gibson. I think there was likely more than enough capacity to machine wind pickups with the Leesona 102's they already had during the pre PAF era.

[RedHouse]

...It's not exactly wobble at the ends of the traverse, just no movement from the wire guide as the machine decides to change the direction of the traverse. This translates to coil guided scatter at the top and bottom of the bobbin....

Any chance you might post some pic's of this Leesona characteristic winding pattern anomyly?
(perhaps you already have, if so, sorry)

Every time I read one of your posts regarding this old machine it gets me intrigued to see what the heck you're on about.

(or is it top secret?)

[David Schwab]

Any chance you might post some pic's of this Leesona characteristic winding pattern anomyly?
(perhaps you already have, if so, sorry)

Every time I read one of your posts regarding this old machine it gets me intrigued to see what the heck you're on about.

(or is it top secret?)

The Men in Black will be at your home tonight just for asking that!

[JGundry]

Any chance you might post some pic's of this Leesona characteristic winding pattern anomyly?
(perhaps you already have, if so, sorry)

Every time I read one of your posts regarding this old machine it gets me intrigued to see what the heck you're on about.

(or is it top secret?)

If you just saw a video of it in operation It would not look like anything exciting. But if you digitally measure the traverse travel at high resolution, which i have done, it becomes pretty interesting. What it does is really very simple but the unique fingerprint of what it does is the intriguing part. But that part is top secret.

[RedHouse]

...that part is top secret....

Suspicion confirmed, I'm calling the mother ship!