Lab Analysis?

[PoorMan]

If one wanted to analyze alloy composition (Keeper bar, slugs, fillisters, etc)...what kind of lab do you go to? How do you find one?

[defaced]

You're looking for a lab that does chemical composition analysis. It's not cheap. I had some stuff done for work recently and a full workup (not including trace elements) using OES (optical emission spectroscopy) and eight samples cost about 1100 bucks total.

Where are you located? Typically you can find a lab that's relatively near because most industries that use metals require this type of workup on a fairly regular basis. Sometimes a company will have a lab in house, but you've got to be dong a good bit of work to support a lab, so usually an industrial area will have a lab near by to support the small companies.

You also have to consider that material properties extend far beyond chemistry. The way the material was processed and it's resulting microstructure will influence material properties immensely. Chemistry only gets you about half the way there, processing gets you the rest of the way there.

What are you trying to achieve exactly? I might be able to help you out and save you a boat load of time.

[PoorMan]

You're looking for a lab that does chemical composition analysis. It's not cheap. I had some stuff done for work recently and a full workup (not including trace elements) using OES (optical emission spectroscopy) and eight samples cost about 1100 bucks total.

Where are you located? Typically you can find a lab that's relatively near because most industries that use metals require this type of workup on a fairly regular basis. Sometimes a company will have a lab in house, but you've got to be dong a good bit of work to support a lab, so usually an industrial area will have a lab near by to support the small companies.

You also have to consider that material properties extend far beyond chemistry. The way the material was processed and it's resulting microstructure will influence material properties immensely. Chemistry only gets you about half the way there, processing gets you the rest of the way there.

What are you trying to achieve exactly? I might be able to help you out and save you a boat load of time.

Pricey!

I'm in L.A. I have some machine shops and general commercial areas close by...so an appropriate lab might be in the general vicinity.

Essentialy, I'm trying to determine what these metals are so I can duplicate/reproduce them.

I'm brand new to this so any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm way at the bottom of the learning curve.

Thanks!
Dave

[Possum]

....

Optical emission tests aren't quite accurate enough though they are non-destructive. If you want an accurate picture of the material you need to have the pieces vaporized and it runs around $200 per piece.

[PoorMan]

Optical emission tests aren't quite accurate enough though they are non-destructive. If you want an accurate picture of the material you need to have the pieces vaporized and it runs around $200 per piece.

I thought you'd have some experience in this area, Dave.

Destruction is ok (that's still more expensive than I'd hoped). Although I have no experience with this, I'm sure it would be best to analyze more than 1 sample of each part...although that may not be an option for me. I'll probably have to do one screw, one slug and the keeper.

What is this vaporization process called and what data will be determined? Or better yet, do you know of a lab I can use?

[Possum]

...

I have parts at a lab right now but their machine is down. Do a google search on metallurgical analysis, spectrum analysis, I got quotes as high as $1500 for one piece down to $200 a piece.

[PoorMan]

I have parts at a lab right now but their machine is down. Do a google search on metallurgical analysis, spectrum analysis, I got quotes as high as $1500 for one piece down to $200 a piece.

Will do. Thanks, Dave.

[fidule]

Try XRF analysis, non destructive analysis

[Possum]

...

when you do an analysis you need to have something with really tight tolerances, just 1 point of carbon for instance (.01%) if is misinterpreted as say being 3 % carbon would really throw off any meaningful results. There are other elements that have noticeable effects in very tiny amounts, I was told that vaporizing the material is the most accurate method to go by. the other problem you'll run into is that if you analyze two different examples of the same part they most likely aren't going to match, the old metallurgy was alot more sloppy than modern methods I bet, and even now 1018 is just a number that can mean a wide variance in tolerance and resulting tones. Its like the same thing with modern alnico, none of the manufacturers make identical products, alnico 2 sounds differennt depending on who made it.