Another Paper Tape post

[belwar]

Well in doing my research on tape, I figured why not share the research so that other beginners like me can benefit when they do a search. I've been looking for a good tape to use on a PAF style humbucker. My goal has been to get as close as to the original as I can get. The original paper tape was (as best as I can tell) #4 Scotch Brand Electric Insulating tape. This tape was available in the mid fifties. Early on it used to have a slight green hue to it, but later that changed to just plain black.

I got in contact with a gentalman at the "electrical tape markets" at 3M who has worked there for 35 years. He informed me that the reason the tape stopped being manufactured was that the supplier of the "paper" portion of the tape could no longer supply them with it. He was unsure of the reason WHY, just that they could not get the supply. For the small supply that all of us use, there is not enough money in it to have someone produce that "paper" to the exact same specs.

The original specifications of the #4 Black tape are as follows:

Thickness: .004" min to .006" max (.102mm to .152mm)
Breaking Strength: 38 lbs/in or 66.5 N/10mm
Elongation at Break: 2%
Dielectric Breakdown: 1000 Volts
High Humidity Insulation Resistance: 5 Megohms (5 Megohms / 25mm)
Adhesion Stength: 40 oz / in or 4.38 N/10mm
Adh. to Adh. Bond seperation after 2hr. 130celcius cure with a 500grm wt. attached: 24 Hours

This information comes from a 3M product specification sheet last revised in 1991.

The most "Accurate" replacement by 3M unfortunately does not come in black. The replacement they came up with is cream colored. The product is called 3M #12 Flatback Tape. According to that 3M rep I talked to the actual adhesive on the tape is *exactly* the same as the #4, but the paper is slightly different (and more consistant in thickness). The specs are as follows:

Thickness: 5.5mils or 0.140mm
Breaking Strength: 30 lbs/in or 53 N/10mm
Elongation at Break: -
Dielectric Breakdown: 2000 Volts
High Humidity Insulation Resistance: Unknown
Adhesion Stength: 45 oz / in or 4.9 N/10mm
Adh. to Adh. Bond seperation after 2hr. 130celcius cure with a 500grm wt. attached: Unknown
Insulation Resistance: >1 x 10^6

Well that's it for now.

belwar

[Possum]

.....

There is one company that makes something that at least looks close but the adhesive is weak. Seymour Duncan had a big stock of #4 tape that ran out a couple years back. I'm sure if there were a direct replacement he'd be using it. The Seth Lover I have uses a crepe texture black paper tape, the adhesive is super aggressive. I would think it might tear the coil apart if you take it off.
One thing you have to be real careful of is there are some tapes that look good out there but they are highly electrically conductive. You wrap a coil with it and it sounds like you buried your pickup underwater.
I accidentally discovered the tape that Tom Holmes uses, its crepe texture but real stretchy, acid free and good ahesive.
The one that looks right but is mostly useless is a Permacell product if I remember right. I tried using it by coating it with one coat rubber cement, but what a hassle, its not worth the extra time and the paper is still too unstretchy and doesn't really wrap that well. You can't really dye the creme tape either, most dyes are electrically conductive if they get a true black, sharpies for instance. creme would just be too weird for what I'm doing :-)

[David Schwab]

Has anyone tried the stuff from GuitarJones?

[belwar]

I'd like to get the specs for many of the different tapes that are available and put them in this thread. I think can find out later this week or next what tape Seymore Duncan uses. I'll buy a roll of the Guitar Jones stuff and see if I can figure out who makes it.

[Possum]

.....

guitar Jones isn't paper tape, its cellophane tape, its used for wrapping strat magnets and the like, its great tape I use it every day for that purpose. they don't have a paper tape....

[kevinT]

Belwar,

Did you do a search for the term "tape" or "black flatback paper tape"? There have been many threads on the forum about this topic....many from long ago when i can remember when Wolfe also spoke to a rep from 3M who also gave him the lowdown about the #4 black paper tape.

Stewmac and allparts have Toyo paper tape which isn't too bad. It's thinner, but the adhesive is more agresssive than some of the samples that I received.

Guitarjones has both the acetate cloth and film tapes. I have tried Permacel's equivalent to guitarjones' film tape which i didn't care for. 3M IMO makes the best electrical film tape and acetate cloth tape.

I have a source for some very good black flatback paper tape....thicker than AP and ST paper tapes....and its more like the original Gibson Tape. The tape really bonds to the coils when wax potted. However, I have found out that it is a good idea to use rubber bands around the coils when potting to ensure that the tape sticks and doesn't unravel.

SK probably will be carrying this tape in the near future....as soon as I get off of my arse and dig through my files to find the info...

[Possum]

...

Its a Shurtape product, I found the listing for it and it says "high adhesion." Well, its not. It doesn't even stick that well to itself. Its possible they may have upgraded the adhesive since I used it. If not I wouldn't waste my money on it. On humbuckers it doesn't conform well over your coil leads and doesn't stick to PE very well so it tends to leave gaps between itself and the coil. It sure looks good but for production work is a bad choice. SK had some crepe black masking tape that works really well, he probably still has it. I suspect Duncan had 3M make him something, I found a test roll of a 3M paper tape thats crepe and has high adhesion like what I saw on the Lover pickup, but its super conductive, horrible stuff.....

[David Schwab]

guitar Jones isn't paper tape, its cellophane tape, its used for wrapping strat magnets and the like, its great tape I use it every day for that purpose. they don't have a paper tape....

I don't know how I missed that... it says cellophane right on the page.

I wondered why it was so cheap. I felt bad that I had just bought six rolls of paper tape from Stew-Mac!

[belwar]

I just noticed that myself when I went to the website to order!

[Possum]

...

Wells its just cellophane tape but its cheap and its the best thing I've found for insulating magnets, I just bought about 15 rolls of it.

[RedHouse]

...I accidentally discovered the tape that Tom Holmes uses, its crepe texture but real stretchy, acid free and good ahesive....

And that would be?

[Possum]

.....

I got them at sapeap prullierts..... I mixed up the letters a bit :-)

[Sweetfinger]

, most dyes are electrically conductive if they get a true black, sharpies for instance.

What Sharpies you using? I can saturate paper with one and it still reads over limit on my Fluke, even with the test leads almost touching. Tried layering the ink on a non-absorbent surface with the same results. If I jam the leads into the wet end of the marker I can read somewhere between 1 to 2 Meg. I also tried a Sharpie "Professional" and couldn't get any reading, wet or dry. How did you test yours?

[EtLa]

The one that looks right but is mostly useless is a Permacell product if I remember right.

There are two kinds of paper tape made by permacel, the Permacel 724 Paper Tape and the PERMACEL P743 (Pro Tapes) which one did you tried?

Here's 60 yards of 1/4" 724 black paper tape for $1.74... Anybody tested it?
http://www.cinemagadgets.com/permace...ck-p-1229.html

[Possum]

...

I think the 724 is the one thats conductive. Maybe Sharpie changed their formula, this was about five years ago I tried it.
Maybe Belwar will find out what Duncan uses and post that, but it looks like 3M tape to me that he had special made maybe. SK has good tape if he still stocks it....