Rickenbacker Bass Treble Pickup Spec's

[kayakerca]

I have an '83 Rickenbacker Treble Pick up coming in for a rewind and am having trouble finding any info on the internet wrt the DCR of that bridge pickup. The luthier sending me the pickup told me the neck was ~ 8K. I have read that later models had DCR in the 11K - 12K range as the earlier versions were thought to be a thin/weak. If anyone has some DCR data on an '83 Treble bridge they would be willing to share it would be much appreciated.

..................Update.........................

*** Ultimately found a resource indicating the Treble Pickup would be in the low to mid 8K range for an 8K neck. Vintage output model 4003. ***

[max oersted]

I had one from an 1984 on my bench last week that was DOA. The coil finish wire had snapped so it was an easy fix. 11.93k.

[kayakerca]

I had one from an 1984 on my bench last week that was DOA. The coil finish wire had snapped so it was an easy fix. 11.93k.

Any chance you took a DCR reading on the neck? Interested in the spread.

[soundmasterg]

A Ric 4000 series bass from 1983 is going to be the 4001 model, which had weaker pickups than the modern 4003. To be honest they sound better to a lot of people too. The hotter 4003 pickups are midrangey with more bottom than the weaker 4001 style, but they have less highs and distort too quick in comparison. I used to have a 1973 4001 with a bad bridge pickup and the neck pickup was around 8k. I had the bridge pickup rewound to about 9k and it was a great match. All Ric pickups from around 1964 on use 44 gauge wire, and are probably poly also. You can find everything you need to know about Rickenbackers from the Rick Resource forum btw. Not as much activity there as there used to be since everyone seems to have gone to the facebook groups, but the info is there.

https://www.rickresource.com/forum/

Greg

[max oersted]

Any chance you took a DCR reading on the neck? Interested in the spread.

I only had the bridge pickup on the bench this time but have had other early 80s neck pickups in the past, all of which were around 10.5k +/- if memory serves. I'll check my records later and will report back if I'm incorrect. 44 SPN on those. I had a couple Toasters from a '61 330 months back, one of which was repairable and the other needed to be rewound. 8.2k on the "good" one. I inspected and mic'd the wire on the one to be rewound: PE, slightly bigger than modern 44, The closest match I had to it was an older spool of 44 single Formvar.

[kayakerca]

. . . I used to have a 1973 4001 with a bad bridge pickup and the neck pickup was around 8k. I had the bridge pickup rewound to about 9k and it was a great match. All Ric pickups from around 1964 on use 44 gauge wire, and are probably poly also. You can find everything you need to know about Rickenbackers from the Rick Resource forum btw. Not as much activity there as there used to be since everyone seems to have gone to the facebook groups, but the info is there.

https://www.rickresource.com/forum/

Greg

I was thinking about bumping up the output to that +/- 9K range as well for a tad more umph. Thanks for the Ricky forum link.

[soundmasterg]

I was thinking about bumping up the output to that +/- 9K range as well for a tad more umph. Thanks for the Ricky forum link.

You're welcome. It's a great forum, though as with all forums these days, traffic is down. The admin set me up as a contributor for an amp section, but I never had the time to contribute as much as he would like. Some people added in all sorts of specific posts for the various subjects there in the other groups and it was nice, but I don't have time to do that. Plus there are tons of amp specific forums around with great info so I never felt the need to copy/paste stuff there when people can just look around.

The 4001 bridge pickup that TV Jones rewound for me was about 9.5k. The neck pickup in my 1973 4001 was 8.88k, and I think I had settled on around 10k being a perfect match with that neck pickup, The 9.5k pickup was very close but just a little too bright for my taste. Whatever TV Jones did when he rewound that made it super aggressive though which I REALLY liked. I built myself a clone of the 4001 in the late 90's because the 4001 needed a LOT of work. I figured I could build a clone and then sell the real one for less than it would cost me to fix the 4001, and I was right. I can't ever sell the clone legally, but that's ok because I never intend to. Anyway my intention was to swap over the pickups from the 4001 to my clone, but when I went to sell it the buyer had agreed to the sale and then played my clone and insisted on having the pickups, so I went with 4003 stock pickups in the one I built. Later I put in some vintage (ish) pickups in my self-built one. I'm happy with the neck pickup which is 10.19k and is an 80's hi gain in a toaster cover. It has alnico magnets subbed in also to it in place of the polepieces. I haven't found a bridge pickup yet that I am happy with to complement that but the search is ongoing.

I only had the bridge pickup on the bench this time but have had other early 80s neck pickups in the past, all of which were around 10.5k +/- if memory serves. I'll check my records later and will report back if I'm incorrect. 44 SPN on those. I had a couple Toasters from a '61 330 months back, one of which was repairable and the other needed to be rewound. 8.2k on the "good" one. I inspected and mic'd the wire on the one to be rewound: PE, slightly bigger than modern 44, The closest match I had to it was an older spool of 44 single Formvar.

Max, have you ever got your hands on older toaster pickups from the Rickenbacker Capris from the 50's? I've heard tales that they used 43 gauge or even 42 gauge wire on the Capris, and maybe Formvar also, but I've never got my hands on one. I had a friend rewind me a newer toaster with 43 gauge poly a few years back but haven't had a chance to try it yet.

Greg

[max oersted]

Max, have you ever got your hands on older toaster pickups from the Rickenbacker Capris from the 50's? I've heard tales that they used 43 gauge or even 42 gauge wire on the Capris, and maybe Formvar also, but I've never got my hands on one. I had a friend rewind me a newer toaster with 43 gauge poly a few years back but haven't had a chance to try it yet.

Greg

No, I haven't. J.Hall swears up and down that they've always used 44 but back in the ye olden days and considering the perhaps looser tolerances with how the wire was drawn, it makes sense to me that what was called 44 could have in fact been closer to a 43. Or, 44 with a heavy insulation build perhaps? For example, I've got a spool of 43 Heavy Formvar that measures like Min/Nom 42 so it's not a stretch at all for me to think that perhaps the 44 they used back then could've had a very robust insulative coating on it: 44 Triple build maybe? Or perhaps it IS 43 or 42 and J.Hall is just talking his talk.

If I ever get an early 50s toaster in I will mic the wire and report back.

[soundmasterg]

No, I haven't. J.Hall swears up and down that they've always used 44 but back in the ye olden days and considering the perhaps looser tolerances with how the wire was drawn, it makes sense to me that what was called 44 could have in fact been closer to a 43. Or, 44 with a heavy insulation build perhaps? For example, I've got a spool of 43 Heavy Formvar that measures like Min/Nom 42 so it's not a stretch at all for me to think that perhaps the 44 they used back then could've had a very robust insulative coating on it: 44 Triple build maybe? Or perhaps it IS 43 or 42 and J.Hall is just talking his talk.

If I ever get an early 50s toaster in I will mic the wire and report back.

I'd appreciate that! John Hall has said that from around 64 it has been 44 gauge, but he couldn't speak on the pickups before then. Obviously the Horseshoe was a different gauge, and as I said I've heard stories about the 50's Capris being different, but they are rare so I've never seen or even played one myself. I agree with you about the wire differences over the years so it could be that some of the reports are just different eras of wire. It would make sense to me that having been involved with Fender distribution in the 50's before he purchased Rickenbacker, F.C. Hall might have used the same wire Fender was using, which would mean heavy Formvar 42 gauge and 43 gauge PE.

Greg

[max oersted]

I've had mid-50s horseshoes that used 43P as well as 43F so it stands to reason that they used that wire on other pickups too. A user on the Rick forum states that he's seen 42 and 43 on certain years/models and I do not doubt it at all. Just like Gibson and Fender, sometimes they just used what they had on-hand and got the job done!

[kayakerca]

I've had mid-50s horseshoes that used 43P as well as 43F so it stands to reason that they used that wire on other pickups too. A user on the Rick forum states that he's seen 42 and 43 on certain years/models and I do not doubt it at all. Just like Gibson and Fender, sometimes they just used what they had on-hand and got the job done!

The wire I just removed from the '83 4003 bridge mic'd out at .0021", so I'm calling it AWG 44 (min). Definitely Formvar based on the colour. As previously mentioned, definitely not potted. Those pole pieces are a bit of a pain with their ~ 1tpi super course thread into what appears to be fiberglass top and bottom flatwork. The flatwork is a little off kilter as a result and not at all receptive to attempts to try and equalize the space between the flats before winding.

--------- Update --------------

I'm going to retreat on my Formvar note. I look at my 44 SPN and it is the same colour as the wire I removed from the pickup. I use so little of the 44 that I had forgotten that it was pretty much the same colour as the 42 HFV I use. My 42 SPN is that bright redish colour, not at all like the 44 SPN.