Magnet wire contact

[Alabam]

Before i got into making my own pickups i opened up a couple of cheap strat style single coils to check out their construction.
I noticed that the magnet wire only made roughly 10% direct contact with the pole pieces.

This started me of into making my own pickups and getting 100% contact with the pole pieces.
I realise that Leo Fender got it right on the nail back in the fifties but i had to find out for myself if more contact with the magnet source would save on wire and also aid the final tone of the guitar.

I was able to get around 5.80 Kohms for each pickup out of the set i made, using about 750 feet of 44AWG magnet wire.
Would this ohm reading be about right for this length of 44 wire?

[madialex]

Before i got into making my own pickups i opened up a couple of cheap strat style single coils to check out their construction.
I noticed that the magnet wire only made roughly 10% direct contact with the pole pieces.

This started me of into making my own pickups and getting 100% contact with the pole pieces.
I realise that Leo Fender got it right on the nail back in the fifties but i had to find out for myself if more contact with the magnet source would save on wire and also aid the final tone of the guitar.

I was able to get around 5.80 Kohms for each pickup out of the set i made, using about 750 feet of 44AWG magnet wire.
Would this ohm reading be about right for this length of 44 wire?

Dont know about the reading but I would think one wound that low with 44 may be a little low in volume, dont know for sure though, heck I did some with 43 just recently and they sound pretty good, course they are not as bright as I would like in the between positions but they are not wound RWRP either so I may be loosing a little twang and brightness due to this. Hell it's worth a shot though, tell us how it turns out with a sound clip of course

[EtLa]

I was able to get around 5.80 Kohms for each pickup out of the set i made, using about 750 feet of 44AWG magnet wire.
Would this ohm reading be about right for this length of 44 wire?

1000 ft of 44 AWG =~ 2.5 Kohms

750 ft =~ 1.875 Kohms

here is some magnet wire specs at MWS http://www.mwswire.com/awgsearch1.asp

[madialex]

1000 ft of 44 AWG =~ 2.5 Kohms

750 ft =~ 1.875 Kohms

here is some magnet wire specs at MWS http://www.mwswire.com/awgsearch1.asp

with those readings i'd say you stretched the wire quite a bit with 750 ft being 5K

oops, i quoted the wrong post

[Alabam]

with those readings i'd say you stretched the wire quite a bit with 750 ft being 5K

oops, i quoted the wrong post

I put the high reading i get down to the wire being so close to my polepieces and/or the way it is wound, i could be wrong in this but i`ll check the length again and see what i get.
I figured out that the average single coil pickup, with one wind of 5 to 6 inches x 8000 of 42 wire would come to around 3500 to 4000 feet, so i surmised i was saving a lot of wire with the winding system i am using.

[madialex]

I put the high reading i get down to the wire being so close to my polepieces and/or the way it is wound, i could be wrong in this but i`ll check the length again and see what i get.
I figured out that the average single coil pickup, with one wind of 5 to 6 inches x 8000 of 42 wire would come to around 3500 to 4000 feet, so i surmised i was saving a lot of wire with the winding system i am using.

I still think it got streched though, I mean the reading you got is about 4 to 5 times what it should be for that amount of wire. 44 is very very easy to stretch and not even know you are doing it, been there and done that before. Almost drove me insane trying to figure out the readings I was getting

[madialex]

I figured out that the average single coil pickup, with one wind of 5 to 6 inches x 8000 of 42 wire would come to around 3500 to 4000 feet, so i surmised i was saving a lot of wire with the winding system i am using.

Ahh but dont forget, as you build the coil 1 turn around gets longer as the coil gets bigger. There is a formula that can figure it out exactly, It is on one of the posts here somewhere, actually it is a program where you plug in the numbers etc... and it gives you all that info

Also dont worry about saving wire, it's tone you're after... Keep at it and do lots of winding with the idea in mind you are going to waste a pile while getting your skills down.

[David Schwab]

I noticed that the magnet wire only made roughly 10% direct contact with the pole pieces.

This started me of into making my own pickups and getting 100% contact with the pole pieces.
I realise that Leo Fender got it right on the nail back in the fifties but i had to find out for myself if more contact with the magnet source would save on wire and also aid the final tone of the guitar.

It really doesn't mater that much. Having the coil in contact with the magnets or metal poles will increase the capacitance of the coil, which might or might not be what you want, and might increase the noise in the pickup.

I went from the coil contacting a steel bar to a plastic bobbin which puts a small space between the coil and the pole, and I don't hear any difference. I also experimented with adding spacers to the core to see what difference it makes.

As far as saving on wire... you wind to the number of turns you need to get the tone you want. It has nothing to do with saving on wire. You aren't just winding until the bobbin is full. And a space between the wire and magnets might use up, what? A turn or two?

Leo made the pickups that way because it was the easiest way to do it. They didn't need injection molded bobbins, just two pieces of fiberboard they could stamp out, and then press the magnets into. A couple of brass eyelets, and you are all done. Leo was about efficiency and easy of manufacturing.

Leo himself didn't seem to think he couldn't do better, as he designed a number of pickups which he got patented after he left Fender. He felt they were improvements over the original designs.

[David Schwab]

I put the high reading i get down to the wire being so close to my polepieces and/or the way it is wound, i could be wrong in this but i`ll check the length again and see what i get.
I figured out that the average single coil pickup, with one wind of 5 to 6 inches x 8000 of 42 wire would come to around 3500 to 4000 feet, so i surmised i was saving a lot of wire with the winding system i am using.

44 AWG is more expensive than 42 AWG, so you sure don't save anything that way. You don't use a thinner gauge to save wire, you use it because it gets the tone you are after, or because you can't fit enough 42 on the coil.

5,000 turns of 44 will have a higher resistance than 5,000 turns of 42, and the two pickups will sound different.

[Alabam]

44 AWG is more expensive than 42 AWG, so you sure don't save anything that way. You don't use a thinner gauge to save wire, you use it because it gets the tone you are after, or because you can't fit enough 42 on the coil.

5,000 turns of 44 will have a higher resistance than 5,000 turns of 42, and the two pickups will sound different.

I get my 44 wire from Schatten, the spool holds about twice the amount of wire than one of 42 wire at the cost of an extra 9$.
I got a lot more breakages with Stewmac`s 42 wire than with Schattens 44strangely enough.

Schatten Wire Specifications

42 gauge - This is the most common gauge of wire used in building and rewinding most electric guitar and bass pickups. This wire is coated with a single build of poly and it has a nominal diameter of 0.0028". Each half pound spool contains approximately 25,000 feet of wire......enough to do 5 or 6 single coil pickup or 2 to 3 humbuckers

43 gauge - Slightly finer than 42 gauge, this wire is coated with a single build of poly and it has a nominal diameter of 0.0024". Each half pound spool contains approximately 33,000 feet of wire.

44 gauge - Finer still than 43 gauge, this wire is coated with a single build of poly and it has a nominal diameter of 0.0022". Each half pound spool contains approximately 41,600 feet of wire.

[David Schwab]

I get my 44 wire from Schatten, the spool holds about twice the amount of wire than one of 42 wire at the cost of an extra 9$.
I got a lot more breakages with Stewmac`s 42 wire than with Schattens 44strangely enough.

Stew-Mac gets their wire from Schatten... it's the same wire. It's not great wire, and you are paying WAY too much for it.

A half pound spool of 44 AWG is $33.95 from Schatten. Check out BaeWire on eBay, you can get a 2.2 lb spool for about $60. That's almost fives times more money if you get it from Stew-Mac/Schatten.

BAEWIRE AWG 44 Copper Magnet Wire SPN 155 Red

If you check eBay often you can get great deals. I recently got two 1.5Lb rolls of 44AWG for $15 each. That's 3 Lbs for the cost of a half pound from Schatten.

[Alabam]

Check out BaeWire on eBay, you can get a 2.2 lb spool for about $60. That's almost fives times more money if you get it from Stew-Mac/Schatten.

Thanks David, 176,000 feet!, thats a lot of wire for the money, i`ll order from them next time.

[David Schwab]

No problem. I bought my first few rolls from Stew-Mac because it was convenient, but not any more!