Hi. Mind If I Ask A Question?

[Elias Graves]

I'm glad there's a sense of humor here.

Well, my first question probably falls under theory and design.
I recently picked up a little Epi P90 Les Paul. I was jamming with my nephew who was playing his old Gibson Jr. We were comparing the sound of the pickups, of course, and it struck us that the Epi pickups were noticeably more midrange heavy than than the old Gibson.
It looks like the Epis are a higher output than the old Gibson as well.
I've read that A2 vs A5 and being higher output will push the mids harder. Is this correct?

Pretty basic.

EG

[soundmasterg]

A2 will not give as much energy content as A5, so that is one consideration that affects the output level of the pickups. Higher output does tend to chop off the lows and the highs and make things mid heavy. It also makes the pickups compress more, but this isn't noticed as much unless you really dig in or play at high volumes. One thing that is often done with pickups from cheaper guitars is that they cheap things out to save money and make more profit on a lower priced instrument. Due to this approach, designs are often made to use materials that were rejected when a given pickup was designed....for instance the PAF. They used nickel silver baseplates for a sonic reason on the PAF, yet the cheaper imitation pickups these days will often be using a brass baseplate, which affects the sound of the pickup for the worse. There are many other differences however, so don't assume the baseplate is the only difference! The manufacturers will often identify a target market for their product and with cheaper brands it is often a heavy metal crowd, so the pickups are made accordingly. Higher winds with thinner wire sometimes makes for a better pickup when used with high distortion levels. Poly wire is often used because it is cheaper than PE or heavy Formvar. Plastic bobbins with a ceramic magnet glued on the bottom for a Strat type pickup means much less time assembling the parts which means less cost for the manufacturer. It also means it is much harder to repair the pickup, and the sound is not the same as a vintage style Strat pickup. At one point musical instruments were a bit more of a boutique industry where quality was job #1, but over time and as larger, more profit driven companies got involved, things were cheapened up , quality went down, and the sounds that everyone loved got diluted. Every pickup design will sound different from each other, and within the same design there will be differences between pickups too.

Greg

[Danelectron]

For people in Texas, sheep shagging would probably belong in Parts and Resources, since most of them have advanced beyond just theory.

Too funny, but being from and living in Iowa there have been sightings.

I agree with the the idea of a basics category where the info can be kept simple with possibly a minimum of math to convey a point and not roll into the PHDs debating the finer points of the philosophies. I imagine a place where someone can have some fun and ask a simple question and get a simple answer. I like when someone gives enough info to kick start a journey without getting into proprietary territory or threatening the pros here. The more advanced minds can move into a more advanced category and can take comfort in getting some of the best technical info and stunning debates. I have read some of the more advanced threads and enjoy the info, but wouldn't want to jump in with a stupid simple question that may jump into my simple mind that would possibly get ignored anyway (really?), thus making me feel intimidated off the forum. I tend to ask some very general questions just to find a starting point to do some more thorough research from a purely hobby standpoint. This is a great forum for info and can be very inspiring to a simple sheep farmer like me. Thanks all, Dan

Elias, Welcome and thanks for inspiring this conversation.

[verhoevenc]

I think a basic section for winders would be great. A lot of the stuff in the "tools" section are more complex things. A lot of guys I'm sure (like myself) come in knowing VERY little about electronics. I know about GUITAR electronics, but general electronics... not so much (I'm a bit better now). So it really took me a long time to grasp some of the counter wiring stuff, how one goes about controlling a sewing machine motor, etc. Not everyone understands a "yeah, throw a rheostat on that!"
I'd be down for some more categories.
Chris

[K. Helms]

I pretty new here but will kick in my AWG HF 0.02 cents. I wouldn't mind seeing a few different catagories. I wouldn't break it up into to many sections so as to make things hard to find - maybe beggining, moderate, and advanced. I happen to like all three and all of the catragories help me, although the super advanced stuff is little over my head right now. Like I can't design and build a Fluke multimeter that will fly to Venus and take soil samples but I can figure out how to build a cheap gauss meter with a calibrated Hall effect sensor and a Fluke 75 the factory made lol. For the moderators though they would have to determine how much would be involved and just how much is to much. I'm just getting started and determined as I can be so any help I recieve is much appreciated.

K

[Danelectron]

The original intent of this forum when it was first started in 1999 was for players to ask the builders - Jason and I at the time - questions just such as this. Wiring, Pots. Caps. Getting better tone. Virtues of high/low output, stuff like that. It wasn't originally intended as a share-all-steal-all between pickup makers.

I see alot of those types of questions in the guitar tech forum. Did that category evolve from to many of those questions here? It may be (mis)interpretation. A basic category could avoid any proprietary thievery if it is kept simple and the REAL makers don't volunteer their or others secrets. This forum could be renamed Pickup Makers Only. Then the wannabees could be shouted down or just not given access like the Super Secret Pickup Makers Forum.

[David King]

I think spitting up the forum into more zones is a bad idea. Simple questions will often require answers at different levels of complexity and depth. No one was ever hurt by reading an equation or delving into a topic they didn't understand. A lot of the knowledge I've picked up on here was by osmosis. After reading about eddy currents in 20 different discussions, the basic understanding forms and I have a pretty good idea now of what that's all about. I didn't and I don't worry about concepts I don't understand but I read though it for as much as I can stand and then move on to something else. Likewise there's nothing wrong with exposing the brilliant minds here with the basics over and over again. They can pass over them or perhaps they can kick the discussion up to a different plain once the fundamentals have been answered. Personally I'd put the coilwinder and tools section back into the main pickup discussion section as it is dead off by itself.

[LtKojak]

Um, okay.

How about only three categories?

• Basics
• General
• Sheep Shagging

Folding Theory&Design into Sheep Shagging seems reasonable, no?

Well, I, for one, will often be visiting the Sheep Shagging section... BTW, what is "pickup making" anyway?

[Dave Kerr]

How about using tags rather than break out into multiple sub-fora? Is the intent to make it easier to search for content, or to fragment the forum so that members can focus their attention on what interests them most?

[big_teee]

How about using tags rather than break out into multiple sub-fora? Is the intent to make it easier to search for content, or to fragment the forum so that members can focus their attention on what interests them most?

How would Tags work.
A few more Forum Headings Would be a good thing?
It works great in Amplification.
They have bunches of them.
Three categories would be IMO about right.
Basics
General
Theory & Design

I like it!
T

[jonson]

Forget Texas and the Aussie outback. Wales has sheeping off to a fine art. Spence and the boys down there have even developed their own decoy methods so you can't tell the people from the sheep.

[WolfeMacleod]

I see alot of those types of questions in the guitar tech forum. Did that category evolve from to many of those questions here? It may be (mis)interpretation. A basic category could avoid any proprietary thievery if it is kept simple and the REAL makers don't volunteer their or others secrets. This forum could be renamed Pickup Makers Only. Then the wannabees could be shouted down or just not given access like the Super Secret Pickup Makers Forum.

As far as I know, no it didn't. The original Pickup Maker's Forum was founded at a place called BeSeen. It was there for a year or two then it was moved over here when this place was still the Ampage... I think because the Beeseen forums were closing down or something, I forget.
I DO think it would be a good idea to have a "supersecret" forum so that any Joe-Blow can't just come in, soak up our research and knowledge, and claim it as his own findings. As we all know, there is a glut of pickup makers these days, but of it I believe stems from just this... and I'm sure that MANY people only lurk here, soak it up, and use it without contributing squat. Random Ebay sellers and fly-by-nights, anyone?

[K. Helms]

Umm West Virginia? lol.

[big_teee]

As far as I know, no it didn't. The original Pickup Maker's Forum was founded at a place called BeSeen. It was there for a year or two then it was moved over here when this place was still the Ampage... I think because the Beeseen forums were closing down or something, I forget.
I DO think it would be a good idea to have a "supersecret" forum so that any Joe-Blow can't just come in, soak up our research and knowledge, and claim it as his own findings. As we all know, there is a glut of pickup makers these days, but of it I believe stems from just this... and I'm sure that MANY people only lurk here, soak it up, and use it without contributing squat. Random Ebay sellers and fly-by-nights, anyone?

I would say StewMac is responsible for at least 95% of Our new competitors.
People buy their kits and instructions, and Wahlah a new pickup Spinner is born!
That takes the edge off, and next thing you know the new guy says "Oh Hell I can Do This!!!"
The rest is fine tuning and jumping from one old design to the next.
That's what I did. I really don't see any thievery necessary.
As far as copying.
I would dare to say most of us could all wind the same pickup to near same specs, and they would all sound different.
Most guys put their own little spin on things.
Any How, that's my .02 worth.
Unless you put SewMac out of business, they are going to just keep on coming!
That I can assure you. Even if the new winder doesn't sell any, that's pickups that won't get sold to him. Also every new winder has buddies that he will make and give to, or sell cheap to. So those guys are out of the loop. On, and On and On!
Couple that with the all the import stuff, it's a very over saturated hobby, or profession.
So my way of looking at it, is let's have fun with it while we can
Sorry for ramblin!
BigT

[Elias Graves]

Good stuff and thanks for the answer.
Here's another.
Got to thinking about a Lace Dually I used to have and a split humbucker.
Now, when you split a humbucker, one coil is shut off. I got to wondering that, instead of shutting that coil off, it becomes a seperate single, like the Dually. Has that been done?
You can either have a humbucker or two singles side by side?

EG