First pup build, I like the tone but not what I wanted

[bigjoe]

I rewound an old pick up I had from a washburn single coil I had. I don't have much info other than the mags are ceramic. At least I think they are ceramic as they aren't conductive. There are 2 bars of them on the bottom of the pup. Slugs are pole pieces in a strat like bobbin.

I put 10,500 wraps of 43 AWG Poly on it. DCR is 10.3 K. Link for wire is below.
AWG 43-Ga Poly Single Build Pickup Coil Wire 1/2 lb Spool


I'm a bit surprised at the tone I'm getting. It almost sounds like I have it going through a chorus effect. Its in the neck position and has a very bright, almost tele-bridge position kind of tone. I was playing through an RP90 going into my PC. I bypassed it thinking maybe something was wrong with it. Its the same basic tone. I have yet to plug into my amp though.

I didn't expect that. I expected it to be much darker. Overall the sound isn't bad, just not what I want in my neck pup.

This is the first attempt at winding pups. I'm happy with the fact I was able to build one and it actually works, but trying to get a completely different tone. Also I wound another at around 8.5 K DCR with around 8000 wraps. Same mags, bobbin, etc... It has the same tone as the one with more wraps.

Would removing one of the mags help possibly. A friend of mine who winds all of his pups said ceramic tends to be brighter and has more touch sensitivity. Is it my polarity? I wound them clockwise with the south pole up.

I've mounted it in a Epi SG and an Ibanez AF75 hollow body, with the same results on both.

[big_teee]

I rewound an old pick up I had from a washburn single coil I had. I don't have much info other than the mags are ceramic. At least I think they are ceramic as they aren't conductive. There are 2 bars of them on the bottom of the pup. Slugs are pole pieces in a strat like bobbin.

I put 10,500 wraps of 43 AWG Poly on it. DCR is 10.3 K. Link for wire is below.
AWG 43-Ga Poly Single Build Pickup Coil Wire 1/2 lb Spool


I'm a bit surprised at the tone I'm getting. It almost sounds like I have it going through a chorus effect. Its in the neck position and has a very bright, almost tele-bridge position kind of tone. I was playing through an RP90 going into my PC. I bypassed it thinking maybe something was wrong with it. Its the same basic tone. I have yet to plug into my amp though.

I didn't expect that. I expected it to be much darker. Overall the sound isn't bad, just not what I want in my neck pup.

This is the first attempt at winding pups. I'm happy with the fact I was able to build one and it actually works, but trying to get a completely different tone. Also I wound another at around 8.5 K DCR with around 8000 wraps. Same mags, bobbin, etc... It has the same tone as the one with more wraps.

Would removing one of the mags help possibly. A friend of mine who winds all of his pups said ceramic tends to be brighter and has more touch sensitivity. Is it my polarity? I wound them clockwise with the south pole up.

I've mounted it in a Epi SG and an Ibanez AF75 hollow body, with the same results on both.

We need to know what the pickup looks like, to know what changes can be made.
If this is a Strat type pickup, I recommend winding a traditional fender type Rod Magnet single coil.
The neck pickup sound of a traditional low wound Strat type pickup with 42 Gauge wire wound around 5.5-5.9k is hard to beat.
Good Luck,
Terry

[mondo]

Are the magnet's poles opposing each other? The P90 has 2 bar mags with the south poles facing inwards but the coil is squat and wide. The tops of the slugs are a south pole and the magnetic field forms a heart shape. There are some S-90s made by a guy who turns tele and strat pickups into these double mag pickups with screw slugs set into bushings where the pole pieces were.

[bigjoe]

yes south facing south.

I took one of the mags off and it made a noticeable difference, but still not quite what I want. I tried various other ceramic mags I had on hand.

I'll probably order some alnico bar mags at some point. I built a bobbin that will give me more of a P90 shaped coil that I might try the ceramics in just to see how ti sounds. I'll look around for the S90 you mention.

[copperheadroads]

I have made a few of the steel pole strat pickups or as mondo referred to them as a s-90
great sounding for playing in the dirt
those strat pickups with the 2 opposing magnets on the bottom are a great place to start
S-90's here
Pickup winding tutorial

[bigjoeasi]

Thanks for the link copper.

Basically the procedure I used. I didn't remove the slugs though. How critical was removing them vs. leaving the slugs? I have twice the DCR and used 43 gauge wire. I might take some wraps off the smaller one and see how it sounds. From a tone perspective what should I expect using 43 vs. 42 AWG? I thought I read the 43 would not be as bright as a 42 wound to the same DCR.

I assume it doesn't sound exactly like a strat or a P90. Which is fine. If it falls some where in between that would be cool.

I took the mag off my Ibby humbucker just because it was laying around doing thing. Like my Dad would preach and the USAF also... Attention to detail... I think I put the mag in backwards. I sounds different that before, but I also left the cover off. Or my pup sounded so bad the crappy HB on my Ibby sounds good now in comparison.

[copperheadroads]

Exchanging pole screws from slugs will have an enormous effect on tone,more bite
comparing 43 to 42 the 42 will have more bass i find
& you cant compare 42 to 43 by relying on dcr
if you fill up that plastic strat bobbin with 42 GAUGE your only gonna get about 7k of wire on it that's about 9400 turns
if you use awg 43 to get 7k that's around 7000 turns & it would be a low output pickup

[mondo]

From what I have heard the T-90 tele bridge pups are very nice sounding if you like p90s and tele bridges. I love both pickups for different things but I may make or purchase a t-90 for my tele at some point. Making it would definitely be more fun and rewarding. You could also experiment a bit with different magnets. I have heard of using different magnets in the same pickup but wonder if they would eventually gauss/degauss each other being of different coercivity.

[David Schwab]

Too much wire, and too thin of a gauge. You bright the resonant peak down into the upper mids. Try 42AWG and less turns. I'm not sure why you want a dark neck pickup though. I like to wind my neck pickups a little brighter so they don't get muddy. If I want dark, I use the tone control.

Also the ceramic magnets and steel poles are going to sound bright.

[bigjoeasi]

David I think you hot it on the head. When I used the term darker I didn't mean I wanted a dark neck pup, just that I thought it would be darker relative to the excessive brightness I had.

I wound up another tonight with a DIY bobbin. Its a little shorter that the strat bobbin I was using. I used the slugs and mags from the washburn pup I mentioned in my first post. I wrapped it about 8,000 times. It reads ~ 7.8K. This is the second time I've noticed this but is it normal to have the DCR lower after installing magnets? It was 7.3K if memory serves me. Maybe it's just a better connection when taking the reading after everything is soldered. I used to be an aircraft electrician, so I'm familiar with using a voltmeter.

I installed it and quickly realized I screwed up the bobbin I was using for the mounting plate. I was able to get it mounted and listen to it. I'm happy at this point. The problem is easily fixed I just ran out of time. It got great low end and the highs come through nice but not too whiny.

One thing that's really annoying and I didn't worry about too much, but I thought it's worth mentioning. I get a really annoying hum when I hit the strings. Not noticeable when playing with Band In A Box, but very noticeable when playing alone. Its quiet without strumming the strings.

I still need to adjust it after fixing the mount, as its very low. It has a decent output even as low as it is though.

I was hoping to come close to an old silvertone DeArmond neck pup I have with the tone. I played it tonight after playing my Ibby hollow body and I like my pup better than the silvertone at this point. The silvertone sounds a little dead in comparison.

Thanks for all the input so far I do appreciate it.

[bigjoe]

I seem to be having trouble posting today. I just posted something and it isn't showing up.

I forgot to mention a few things in my post last night or early this morning I suppose is more accurate. I thought I was winding my pups CCW, turns out the winder is turning CCW. My pups are wound CW. I read various threads as to the impact (or not) his will have, so I thought I'd mention it. Also on this most current pup I installed the mags N facing N since I have them wrapped in the opposite direction as I originally thought. I did have them S facing S with a CW wind on my first, and not CCW as I posted.

I get the feeling from reading posts by you David that wind direction and polarity don't matter much? This last pup I wound it probably wouldn't matter what direction I wound or what poles faces each other as long as its reverse polarity? Not trying to put words in your mouth it just seems I've read several post by you that you state wind direction doesn't matter.

[copperheadroads]

Direction don't mean much if you are doing sets of your own ,but when you are trying to add your pickups to a guitar with another brand ,You should know the magnetic polarity & the the direction of the wind (especially if your shipping them too a customer & they are out of phase with an existing pickup ),in the case of a strat the you can easily swap the leads, but with other styles its just not that simple

[bigjoe]

So it effects tone but only as it would relate to another pickup?

Any thoughts on the hum I get when playing? It very quiet when I'm not strumming the strings. The pickup is mounted very low into the cavity of a full hollow body (Ibanez AF75). My first thought was once I get it up higher that might go away. I was thinking it may be pickup sound from inside the body as well as the strings?

[bigjoe]

Buzz

I made the modifications I needed to make to the pup and mounted it in my Ibanez AF75 Hollow Body.

I'm really liking this pup. However, when I strike a note and hold it a prominent buzz gets louder as the note rings. It it as quiet as it can be when notes are being played.

I attached a MP3 that's about 10 seconds long that will get the point across.

I included a crappy phone pic.

[bigjoe]

I meant to post over the weekend but have been busy.

The buzz problem was all me for the most part. The pup hums like a single coil, but seemed to behave rather odd. What I found is I have a Noise Gate (DigiTech calls it a Silencer Gate) active on my amp model. Once I turn it off the pup hums even when not playing, which is what the Silencer Gate is for according to the manual I have. It is very quiet when I'm not playing, but I think the volume on the guitar works just as easy. Once I turned it off the hum/buzz doesn't get louder as the note rings which was the case before. It does hum when not playing now.

It's very strange when playing and holding a note. Once I turned it off it opened up the tone some also. I like the sound better with it off although I can't say I like the hum much.

Live and learn. Thanks for the helpful posts. Maybe someone will something from my mistake.

P.S. The pup I ended up with was basically a P90 bobbin that was slightly taller than a P90, and ceramic mags and pole pieces I cannibalized. ~8000 wraps of 43 awg, 7.5K DCR