questions about pickups and magnets

[copperheadroads]

Mr Edmonton , Hi
I would just twist that bare wire up with what ever other wire you using for you start wire
i use the same wiring as Seymour Duncan uses & the bare wire which would go to the base-plate i would solder it with the start of the screw coil which is green
Wiring Diagram

[David Schwab]

i need of some more expertise!!!
so, i have began ordering supplies for humbuckers.
i am shopping out simple black hb covers, plastic without holes from mojotone, and after emailing tom about baseplates, he suggested either modding the cover, or the baseplates, as the cover is deeper than his baseplates, and will leave too large a gap between top of cover and top of poles/slugs. i have seen pickups without baseplates, just open backs, and all parts just waxed or epoxied in place. my question is, if i go without a baseplate, using a 4 cond wire, where to i sent the ground as it usually connects to the baseplate? if need be, i will likely cut my own baseplate, but i would prefer to wax/epoxy the whole deal without a baseplate, just need to know where that ground goes?
thanx

Those covers are made for epoxying the pickup in like with EMGs. They don't need baseplates as they have the threaded brass inserts for the mounting screws. The ground goes to the metal parts on the pickup, and as with EMGs, they have a shield. You can ground your metal parts by sticking some copper shielding tape to them and soldering a wire to that. I wouldn't use wax to secure everything in, but don't epoxy the pickup in until you like what you have, because you won't get it out!

Obviously making the pickup like this makes it hard to test them. So, if you want to use a baseplate with a closed cover, you can find closed plastic covers that fit onto baseplates here:

Humbucking Pickup Covers No Holes Black Plastic | Allparts.com

[beinz]

awesome, thanks for your help.
looking forward to getting the rest of my supplies, and beginning the butchering process.
im sure it'll take a few before i get it right, so i ordered lots.
im surprised at how brittle c8 is, some of my mags already have small chips.
ive got a couple of companies who carry a8, and one carries a8he [high energy].
how much stronger is alnico than ceramic. im hoping this high energy may contain the "power" of ceramic,
but the musical properties of alnico.
so far ive ordered slugs/screws and mags from dennis, awg43 spn from bae, just waiting for the dollar to pick back up and put an order in at mojotone for the rest of the stuff.

[beinz]

thanks for the ideas, i was looking at allparts a while ago, i will look a bit further.

[David Schwab]

how much stronger is alnico than ceramic. im hoping this high energy may contain the "power" of ceramic,
but the musical properties of alnico.

A8 and C8 are similar in strength. On average ceramic is stronger than alnico.

Alnico has no musical properties, but being metalic has higher inductance and tends to sound warmer than ceramic, which some people hear as more "musical."

You can make god sounding pickups with any magnets, but you have to match the magnet and windings and other parts to get the tone you want. Sticking a strong C8 into a PAF would sound very bright and maybe even harsh.

[big_teee]

A8 and C8 are similar in strength. On average ceramic is stronger than alnico.

Alnico has no musical properties, but being metalic has higher inductance and tends to sound warmer than ceramic, which some people hear as more "musical."

You can make god sounding pickups with any magnets, but you have to match the magnet and windings and other parts to get the tone you want. Sticking a strong C8 into a PAF would sound very bright and maybe even harsh.

I experimented one time with a humbucker and A8, C5, & C8.
I made them different strengths, and tested them in the same pickup, and same guitar.
The A8 always sounded IMO Warmer and less bright that the C5, & C8.
I attribute that to Metallic Eddy Currents of the A8.
The C5 and C8 were similar in strength, and Sound, and I always preferred the C5.
At least I did in that particular guitar and pickup.
I like the sound of a A8, better than that of the A5.
The A8, always has a warmness that I can't seem to get with the A5, even when the A8 is stronger.
These are all just my opinions, but it is fun to test and compare.
Make your own tests and see what you come up with.
Terry

[beinz]

that seems to be a consensus i am discovering. i have found a mag company with an a8he [high energy]
i am curious to find out how different it may be from the common a8 and c8, how much more high energy...
it may be just what i am looking for, given the price is reasonable.
at some point i want to also start winding music man pickups for my basses.
should i use the guitar humbucker recipe of steel slugs/rods, and a bar magnet, or the traditional bass recipe of magnetic rods for a m.m. style bass bucker?
reason i ask is because i like the more powerful bass pickups as well, and have found a company that sells a8 rods in m.m. width [or close to] and am wondering if that type of mag will be better in a bass bucker application than bar mags?

[David Schwab]

I experimented one time with a humbucker and A8, C5, & C8.
I made them different strengths, and tested them in the same pickup, and same guitar.
The A8 always sounded IMO Warmer and less bright that the C5, & C8.
I attribute that to Metallic Eddy Currents of the A8.

Ceramic magnets are non metallic, so the inductance is lower. Just add some steel and they will be as warm as alnico. Or wind them hotter. That's why I said you can't take a PAF and stick a ceramic magnet in it.

[big_teee]

In my test I mentioned earlier.
It was a standard humbucker, with a nickel silver baseplate, steel slugs steel screws with a steel keeper bar, and no cover.
Wasn't trying to change the pickup, just observing the difference in the sound, with the different magnets, at different strengths.
I like to change the strength of magnets and see how they sound different.
I like the sound of Ceramics in the right circumstances.
If you can get them to work for you, they are dirt cheap.
Also if the OP is wanting a very bright humbucker, use ceramic Magnets and non metallic baseplate, like you mentioned earlier.
That's usually too bright, and too harsh for me.
Try your own tests, and see what you can come up with.
Good Luck,
Terry

[MrCandy]

Also you can see the difference between different types of magnets here with sound samples and description.

[big_teee]

Those covers are made for epoxying the pickup in like with EMGs. They don't need baseplates as they have the threaded brass inserts for the mounting screws. The ground goes to the metal parts on the pickup, and as with EMGs, they have a shield. You can ground your metal parts by sticking some copper shielding tape to them and soldering a wire to that. I wouldn't use wax to secure everything in, but don't epoxy the pickup in until you like what you have, because you won't get it out!

Obviously making the pickup like this makes it hard to test them. So, if you want to use a baseplate with a closed cover, you can find closed plastic covers that fit onto baseplates here:

Humbucking Pickup Covers No Holes Black Plastic | Allparts.com

I agree with david
I would get everything perfected before I started gluing everything together.
Or you might end up with a lot of Paper weights with wires attached.
B_T

[beinz]

thanks for the samples, the "heavy riff" type of sound is sort of the range im going for.
i had been ballparking bridge with c8, awg43 rdc 13.5 for rhythm, 11.5 for lead, and possibly all slugs to beef it up a bit...
and neck with c8, awg43, rdc 9.5 all slugs as well. id prefer to use awg42 on the neck, but all i have is 43, and im not going to buy more wire for now, ill try the 43 at a slightly higher rdc to get the right sound... [as opposed to 42 at rdc 7.5?]
im sure i can guess a whole bunch of specs, but will only find out once i start winding!

[beinz]

i agree, i will likely use baseplates to test, if i like it, i will set it into one of these covers!

[beinz]

another question,
i have shopped out sheets of nickel-silver [german silver] online, its a fair bit cheaper than buying precut baseplates.
the standard baseplates are aprox .03" thick.
i understand that the more metal in the h.b., the less bright it becomes.
not that i want an overly bright pickup, but what is the thinnest nickel-silver [or any other material for that matter] i can effectively use for a baseplate before it stops serving its purpose well? i have heard of winders using a thinner b.p.?

[copperheadroads]

The standard is 20 gauge nickel silver which is hard to bend by hand
I don't know if using a thinner gauge base plate is going to effect your tone that much .....If we were talking about Covers then YES