Basic winding techniques and how to avoid oddly shaped coils

[shawnl]

First off, my apologies if I'm making a pest of myself, but given my beginner's level experience I may be asking a lot of questions over the next few weeks. So after building a simple hand crank winding machine and my first set of bobbins I managed to wind 2 pickups without wire breakage. While they did in fact produce a usable signal, the coils themselves look hideous. I ended up with what others have referred to as a parallelogram with a propeller-like twist on the ends. Obviously, I need some practice.

Considering that I didn't break any wire during these first attempts, I'm immediately suspecting that I didn't use enough tension or perhaps just didn't apply it as consistently as I thought. Even so it's not like wire is hanging off the coils either. It's just really easy to underestimate the amount of tension these things need. Secondly, I'm thinking that perhaps I should slow down on the traversing. Otherwise I'm just trying to get a consensus of other things I might be overlooking. What might I be doing wrong?

[big_teee]

First off, my apologies if I'm making a pest of myself, but given my beginner's level experience I may be asking a lot of questions over the next few weeks. So after building a simple hand crank winding machine and my first set of bobbins I managed to wind 2 pickups without wire breakage. While they did in fact produce a usable signal, the coils themselves look hideous. I ended up with what others have referred to as a parallelogram with a propeller-like twist on the ends. Obviously, I need some practice.

Considering that I didn't break any wire during these first attempts, I'm immediately suspecting that I didn't use enough tension or perhaps just didn't apply it as consistently as I thought. Even so it's not like wire is hanging off the coils either. It's just really easy to underestimate the amount of tension these things need. Secondly, I'm thinking that perhaps I should slow down on the traversing. Otherwise I'm just trying to get a consensus of other things I might be overlooking. What might I be doing wrong?

Your not being a pest, that is what the B. Corner is for.
I do suggest, before you post, to search, and make sure there is not already a duplicate thread on the subject.
Some topics like how to magnetize, where to buy wire, and the obvious topics have been covered over and over.
I was always a tight winder, and when I started winding I was bad about breaking wire.
So if You are winding too loose, You may want to tighten up some.
Are you having to turn the crank with one hand and guide with the other, or is this a motor driven winder?
If winding by hand is the case, then that would make it harder to guide the wire consistently.
The center is crossed twice as many times as the ends.
So you have to pace your traverse for the center accordingly.
The Slavarsan Coil Estimator will show you the amount of TPL for different sized bobbins.
Coil Estimator
Good Luck,
Terry

[shawnl]

Are you having to turn the crank with one hand and guide with the other, or is this a motor driven winder?
If winding by hand is the case, then that would make it harder to guide the wire consistently.

Yes, it is entirely hand-operated which I am in fact regretting. At first it seemed like such a simple, straight to the point device. I liked the idea of not having to rely on any electrics whatsoever. However, after 9000 winds of hand-cranking I'm finding the process a little less thrilling. I thought about building some sort of auto-traverse mechanism which would still be powered by the hand crank although the physics of getting it to move proportionally seem a bit complicated. I don't really have an issue coordinating the hand cranking with the traversing motion. I'm having more trouble keeping my fingers pinched around the wire while trying to apply tension over long periods of time.

[big_teee]

I have a couple of winders now.
But, I've wound many bobbins with a basic cordless drill mounted on a board.
Still very simple and very effective.
I feed the wire from behind me, and it goes by my right hand about shoulder high.
Some guys use something between their fingers like felt, or shamwow, or other matl.
I just use my fingers.
Hang in there it will get easier.
If you will update your location, we will know where you are, and what is available to you in your area.
Good Luck,
T

[Magnut]

If your getting a parallelogram, then it's most likely that the pickup is not mounted flatly on the spindle. It's tilted one way or the other. Use your fingers to start. This will give you the best idea of what tension is all about and how much to use. Watch your counter and see if you can hit the correct amount of TPL as you traverse. Remember, scatter winding does not mean flailing wildly. Good luck and practice practice practice.

[Ward]

If your getting a parallelogram, then it's most likely that the pickup is not mounted flatly on the spindle. It's tilted one way or the other. Use your fingers to start. This will give you the best idea of what tension is all about and how much to use. Watch your counter and see if you can hit the correct amount of TPL as you traverse. Remember, scatter winding does not mean flailing wildly. Good luck and practice practice practice.

What he said. AND, if you are getting "curl up" at the ends of your bobbins your tension is probably too much. Of course you can use that high tension and stop the traverse a mil before each side so what the hey. I figure I have too much tension if the wire is breaking a lot but for me it's usually a snag that causes breakage. Tension also varies or should vary according to the winder speed. Slower is better IMO, 6/800 rpm.

[shawnl]

I have noticed that the flywheel on my winder does have a slight wobble which could also be contributing the uneven winding. The bobbins themselves are not curling at the ends, its the actual shape of the coil. Picture a parallelogram that also twists as it moves up the bobbin. Thats what I mean by the propeller shape. It's interesting that you mention possibly using too much tension. As a beginner winder, I just assumed that loose wire tension would be the first thing I'd have to overcome. Perhaps I overcompensated. I'm winding at about 75-100 rpm so I don't think I'm going too fast. I think I may need to go back and fine tune my bobbin mounting method.

[Ward]

Yep, you need your bobbins to be square and running true that's fer sure.

[big_teee]

Machinists call it Run out.
When you have wobble in your bobbin, there is no way to wind a straight pretty bobbin.
Get that fixed, and you should be well on your way.
Good Luck,
T