An Introduction and Some Beginner Questions

[cps]

Hi Folks,

I'm a guitarist but I've also got a fair bit of experience with (1) analog electronics building valve guitar amps and various guitar effects, (2) developing audio software using C/C++, and (3) some woodwork/instrument making, building a ukulele and a half-finished electric solidbody guitar.

I've never considered pickup winding but the process sounds interesting partly because I'm curious about most things to do with music technology, but also because I'm thinking of building myself a custom guitar which will most likely require some custom pickups. More specifically, I'm planning on building a seven-string guitar which uses hum-cancelling single-coil pickups (something like Dimarzio HS3s). I'm thinking of using only two pickups - one slanted for the bridge and one straight across the strings for the neck. I'm not sure whether I'll need a middle pickup.

Seven-string HS3s don't seem to exist so it looks like they'll have to be custom made (either by me or someone more experienced).

Can someone point me to any info on these hum-cancelling pickups? Are they actually single-coil pickups (sometimes they're referred to as "stacked humbuckers").

Are they more difficult to make than a standard single-coil pickup?

Is there any info available on how to wind these?

Cheers,

Chris

[soundguruman]

No, they are not single coil. A hum cancelling PU has two coils, out of phase to each other.
There are NO single coil, hum cancelling pick ups.
Buying ready made is always a good choice, but there are no 7 string PUs ready made.
You may want to get in touch with a pickup shop, that has the tooling and know how.
It takes a lot of effort to do it right, and it's a big learning process.
Therefore an experienced winder is a very good choice.

I highly recommend you get in touch with KEN at Angeltone...
http://www.angeltone.com/

[big_teee]

Hi Folks,

I'm a guitarist but I've also got a fair bit of experience with (1) analog electronics building valve guitar amps and various guitar effects, (2) developing audio software using C/C++, and (3) some woodwork/instrument making, building a ukulele and a half-finished electric solidbody guitar.

I've never considered pickup winding but the process sounds interesting partly because I'm curious about most things to do with music technology, but also because I'm thinking of building myself a custom guitar which will most likely require some custom pickups. More specifically, I'm planning on building a seven-string guitar which uses hum-cancelling single-coil pickups (something like Dimarzio HS3s). I'm thinking of using only two pickups - one slanted for the bridge and one straight across the strings for the neck. I'm not sure whether I'll need a middle pickup.

Seven-string HS3s don't seem to exist so it looks like they'll have to be custom made (either by me or someone more experienced).

Can someone point me to any info on these hum-cancelling pickups? Are they actually single-coil pickups (sometimes they're referred to as "stacked humbuckers").

Are they more difficult to make than a standard single-coil pickup?

Is there any info available on how to wind these?

Cheers,

Chris

You are picking on a more complex project to start winding.
EMG has a 7 string active pickup that is built into a 4 string bass soapbar pickup cover.
I would stick with a 7 string humbucker, or make a humbucking rail into the 4 string bass soapbar pickup cover.
It would be this size.
Mojotone EMG Style 2-Hole Mount Soapbar Bass Neck Pickup Cover Black (4 String)
At the bottom of the mojo page are the bobbins and magnets used with this cover.
You can make a fine pickup with blade rail type pickups.
Hope this helps.
T
**BTW- Welcome to the for now "Beginners Corner"!
You can help us rename it.

[big_teee]

Bump!
Anyone got any ideas on pickups for a Seven string guitar?
Out of my realm.

[David Schwab]

The HS3 is a fairly simple and old design. Pretty much what's going on is you have the magnets running through both coils, and the two coils are wired up out of phase, or wound in reverse. They have a steel U channel under the top coil to try and give some isolation. You don't have to use that, and you can also use just a flat piece of steel with holes in it for the magnets. The older Duncan stacked pickups don't have the isolation plate.

You have to use thinner wire, like 43 or 44, ad wind them kind of hot to make up for the lack of low end, because the out-of-phase coils tend to give you a very bright tone.

Here's how they are put together. DiMarzio lists the various patent for their different models. Looking up the patent will give you an idea of how they built the pickup.

[nickc35]

The HS3 is a fairly simple and old design. Pretty much what's going on is you have the magnets running through both coils, and the two coils are wired up out of phase, or wound in reverse. They have a steel U channel under the top coil to try and give some isolation. You don't have to use that, and you can also use just a flat piece of steel with holes in it for the magnets. The older Duncan stacked pickups don't have the isolation plate.

You have to use thinner wire, like 43 or 44, ad wind them kind of hot to make up for the lack of low end, because the out-of-phase coils tend to give you a very bright tone.

Here's how they are put together. DiMarzio lists the various patent for their different models. Looking up the patent will give you an idea of how they built the pickup.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18637[/ATTACH]

I'm a little confused about this stacked humbucker design. Don't the individual coils have to having opposite magnet polarity for it to have humbucking capability? If the magnet rods just run straight through both coils, then they can't be opposite....no? Or I am just missing something?

[copperheadroads]

In a stack design ,the top coil is the only coil you want to hear
The bottom coil is closer to other pole of the magnet & not used as for tone ,just to buck the hum

[big_teee]

I'm a little confused about this stacked humbucker design. Don't the individual coils have to having opposite magnet polarity for it to have humbucking capability? If the magnet rods just run straight through both coils, then they can't be opposite....no? Or I am just missing something?

This is a question, I'm not real clear on it either.
If you notice the arrows one coil is going one way, and the other coil is wound the other?
The Magnets, are North on one end and south on the other.
If one coil is near the top of the Rod Magnets, and the other coil is at the bottom, or other end of the Magnets.
That should put the two coils opposite in polarity?
T

[Bjorn218]

Nick,

I am a total newb, but in the diagram above, the coils are shown each wound in a different direction. I think how the coils are wired together are more important than the magnetic poles in this case. To my eyes it looks like a normal single coil pickup that has an added coil wired so that both coils are out of phase with each other cancelling the hum. If one were removed, the pickup would act as a normal single coil.

In a nutshell, it is a regular humbucker and wired as such, but instead of the coils lying side by side, they are stacked and use one set of poles(magnets) that go through each bobbin.

Someone please correct me if I am incorrect.

[copperheadroads]

The bottom coil don't need to have magnets ,It can have steel slugs like a Dummy coil

[big_teee]

The bottom coil don't need to have magnets ,It can have steel slugs like a Dummy coil

Thanks, Copper!
That makes sense.
T

[nickc35]

Hmmm......that's about as clear as mud.

My understand of a humbucker is that the coils are wound in opposite direction (or just wired opposite...finish wire to finish wire if wound in the same direction). This puts the coils out-of-phase with each other. I wired up many guitars with a phase reversal switch and I'm familiar with that out of phase "honking nasal" tone. But in a humbucker the coils have opposite magnet polarity as well and this puts the coils back in phase....and bucks the hum.....so they don't sound out of phase.

Copperheadroads explanation about the bottom coil not needing magnets just confuses me (Sorry copperheadroads....I'm sure it's just me). So from what I've learned if the bottom coil didn't need magnets then the 2 coils would be out-of-phase and have the honking nasal tone. But I'm sure the pickup doesn't sound that way. My question is why doesn't it sound out of phase if it doesn't have opposite magnet polarity?

Also your other explanation about the bottom coil being closer to the other pole doesn't seem to make sense to me because I thought polarity has to be in relation to the strings. If you took a Strat single coil with North polarity and installed it up-side down, would it not then have South polarity in relationship to the strings?

[big_teee]

Hmmm......that's about as clear as mud.

My understand of a humbucker is that the coils are wound in opposite direction (or just wired opposite...finish wire to finish wire if wound in the same direction). This puts the coils out-of-phase with each other. I wired up many guitars with a phase reversal switch and I'm familiar with that out of phase "honking nasal" tone. But in a humbucker the coils have opposite magnet polarity as well and this puts the coils back in phase....and bucks the hum.....so they don't sound out of phase.

Copperheadroads explanation about the bottom coil not needing magnets just confuses me (Sorry copperheadroads....I'm sure it's just me). So from what I've learned if the bottom coil didn't need magnets then the 2 coils would be out-of-phase and have the honking nasal tone. But I'm sure the pickup doesn't sound that way. My question is why doesn't it sound out of phase if it doesn't have opposite magnet polarity?

Also your other explanation about the bottom coil being closer to the other pole doesn't seem to make sense to me because I thought polarity has to be in relation to the strings. If you took a Strat single coil with North polarity and installed it up-side down, would it not then have South polarity in relationship to the strings?

It is an interesting design.
It would be fun to try one.
I usually make Strat single coils, or Strat Blade Humbucker Pickups.
The blades work real well and really do a nice job on the hum cancelling, but then again it is a true Humbucker.
Mojo has all the parts for the Blade Buckers.
The OP was wanting something for a 7 string.
I think that is how the thread got off on the stacked design.
T

[copperheadroads]

Think of a sidewinder pickup ,It has 2 coils but just 1 polarity

[nickc35]

Think of a sidewinder pickup ,It has 2 coils but just 1 polarity

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with a sidewinder pickup.

I hope no one minds that I hijacked this thread.

Terry - I am waiting for parts to show up from Mojo to wind my first single-coil sized dual-blade humbucker. I bought the bobbins that are half-round so when put together looks like a single bobbin. I'm looking forward to winding it. My customer really wants it HOT. So I'm also going to attempt to wind it with 44 awg. Never wound with 44 before. So this ought to be pretty interesting. Wish me luck....I think I'm going to need it.

This stacked humbucker design has me really intrigued. I would like to make one at some point but I still want to understand it. I want to know how it works and why it works. Anyone else want to chime in?