Bridge Pickup Too Bright

[rjb]

No it doesn't. Where did you get such an idea? Every Fender pickup is wax potted and they are plenty bright. Most modern humbuckers are wax potted too.

No, SGM is right- too much wax smothers the electrons.

I can feel it coming... the gratuitous eddy current debate is just around the corner.
Throw a brass cover on that sucker.

[soundguruman]

No, SGM is right- too much wax smothers the electrons.
I can feel it coming... the gratuitous eddy current discussion is just around the corner.
Throw a brass cover on that sucker.

When you compare a completely unwaxed PU to a waxed one, you will hear the difference.
In humBucking PUs, perfectly balanced coils kill much more high frequencies.
Unbalanced coils, allow more highs, but also more hum...
shield wire from the PU also kills the highs, due to added capacitance across the source.
Un shielded allows the really brittle highs, but also much more hum...as you know already.
But, I would not use single coil to start with. It's overkill...

In other words, sounds like all you need is a bit more capacitance across the source...
To kill the brittle-ness.

[soundguruman]

No, SGM is right- too much wax smothers the electrons.
I can feel it coming... the gratuitous eddy current debate is just around the corner.
Throw a brass cover on that sucker.

Smother them trons...

[rjb]

In other words, sounds like all you need is a bit more capacitance across the source...
To kill the brittle-ness.

OP doesn't want to do that- too easy.

[soundguruman]

OP doesn't want to do that- too easy.

You just put a small capacitor across the leads, or twist the leads together, and presto.
The longer the leads, the tighter the twist, the more highs will be attenuated...

[big_teee]

Sounds like you guys are having fun with this post.
He was not being guitar specific, but how winding in general effects tone.
A valid point.
As far as wax potting, I either fully wax pot, or don't bother.
I wax pot until all bubbles are gone.
I just made 2 different humbuckers with covers.
One potted, and the other non potted.
Both neck pickups.
I tested both in the same guitar, one at a time, with the same amp.
I could tell no noticeable difference in tone.
There was a little difference in amp feedback.
T

[David Schwab]

No, SGM is right- too much wax smothers the electrons.

Electrons thrive on wax.

[David Schwab]

When you compare a completely unwaxed PU to a waxed one, you will hear the difference.

No you wont. You might hear some microphonics.

In humBucking PUs, perfectly balanced coils kill much more high frequencies.
Unbalanced coils, allow more highs, but also more hum...
shield wire from the PU also kills the highs, due to added capacitance across the source.
Un shielded allows the really brittle highs, but also much more hum...as you know already.
But, I would not use single coil to start with. It's overkill...

In other words, sounds like all you need is a bit more capacitance across the source...
To kill the brittle-ness.

Now you are talking about two other different things. Humbuckers cancel high end because the higher harmonics are closer together on the strings. MOve the coils farther apart and the notch gets lower.

Shielding will raise the capacitance somewhat. Will you hear that after you add the cable to the equation? Probably not.

Two faster ways to try and dull the high end would be to weaken the magnets, and/or wrap a closed loop of brass or copper foil around the coil.

[soundguruman]

Electrons thrive on wax.

I thrive on wax too.

[jrdamien]

I'm not against it. It's all part of it. But my point is that there is a considerable difference (imho) between a pickup wound to sound darker and the use of capacitors to darken the tone.

[big_teee]

I'm not against it. It's all part of it. But my point is that there is a considerable difference (imho) between a pickup wound to sound darker and the use of capacitors to darken the tone.

Sounds like your on the right track.
Your down to just guessing like the rest of us!
Every guitar is a little different, and even good quality metal covers darken the tone a bit.
T

[jrdamien]

Your down to just guessing like the rest of us!

I'm down with that.

[Stratz]

I also seem to consistently wind very bright strat bridge pickups with a5 rods. I know this is a common thing for strat bridge and I can tame it by winding it well over 9000 winds, or using more wind and a2's, but I have heard more vintage spec'd a5 bridges that aren't ice picks. I just haven't found a recipe for them...yet.

How hot are you winding your middle and neck pickups?

The bridge pickup is relative to the middle and neck pickups that make up rest of the set. For example, if you were to wind lower output 42 gauge single build neck and middle pickups to around 5.5K-5.8K and probably around 2- 2.2 Henries (these numbers can vary widely depending upon the wire and the winding pattern used) and you wind a ~6K+ bridge pickup (~2.7-3.0 Henries) it will sound dark in comparison to the middle and neck pickups.

But if you're middle and neck pickups are are hot to start with, say Awg 42 single build over 6k and somewhere around 3 Henries (again, these numbers can vary widely depending upon the wire and the winding pattern used) you don't have many options to get the bridge pickup any fatter sounding because of all of the mid-range and upper mids you're going to end up with.

As others have said you can shorten the bridge bobbin to .410" or so. Any shorter and the cover will probably bottom out. You can and try a tighter scatter, different coil shapes, different magnet types, strength and lengths. You can also try a heavy build wire for the bridge if you're using single build for the middle and neck pickups. It can help retain more lows and highs. If you're using single build poly wire for the middle and neck try using Plain Enamel of the same dimensions for the bridge.

Heavy potting will definitely kill off highs (might as well throw a blanket over your speaker cabinet) but if you're starting out with hot neck and middle pickups to begin with then the bridge is probably going to sound bright in comparison because of too much mid-range, upper mid-range.

The Duncan Antiquity II Custom bridge Strat pickup is a pretty dark but full sounding pickup that's advertised at 9.7k and 4 Henries but I haven't had one in my hands yet to see whats under the hood. If I had to guess I'd say it's wound with an in-between gauge (maybe AWG 42.5) because ~10k and ~4 Henries of 43 single build on a Strat bridge is most likely going to sound closer to a Tele bridge pickup than a Strat.

Research the Antiquity II Custom bridge and you'll find your answer.

Good luck!

[jrdamien]

Wow, that is a wealth of good info right there!

[SonnyW]

No, SGM is right- too much wax smothers the electrons.

I can feel it coming... the gratuitous eddy current debate is just around the corner.
Throw a brass cover on that sucker.

I do think there is some effect on brightness due to wax potting. On many of my development pickups, I have measured the resonant peak after assembly and before potting, and then again after potting when they have returned to room temperature. I nearly always will see a drop in the resonant peak frequency. Sometimes it is as much as 1 kHz. I first noticed this effect when I was purposefully trying to get a really bright humbucker pickup to be used for an electric banjo application. I would like to know if anyone else has seen this. Maybe it has to do with some capacitance effects of the potting.