potting without pro setup?

[Chuck H]

I need to pot a pair of P90's. I don't have a pot. Previously I've just used varnish, but it stinks and takes six moons to dry. Most here seem to think wax is the way to go. So I'd like to do wax this time. Has anyone had trouble or experiences to share doing this sort of thing on the cheap. I have some excellent double wall cook pots that don't 'hot spot' much. Otherwise I can use a double boiler setup. What about a typical kitchen type bi-metal thermometer? I don't see any reason it can't be done this way, but if there are paticular problems or mistakes that the poor mans method is prone to, I'd like to avoid them.

[big_teee]

I need to pot a pair of P90's. I don't have a pot. Previously I've just used varnish, but it stinks and takes six moons to dry. Most here seem to think wax is the way to go. So I'd like to do wax this time. Has anyone had trouble or experiences to share doing this sort of thing on the cheap. I have some excellent double wall cook pots that don't 'hot spot' much. Otherwise I can use a double boiler setup. What about a typical kitchen type bi-metal thermometer? I don't see any reason it can't be done this way, but if there are paticular problems or mistakes that the poor mans method is prone to, I'd like to avoid them.

Hi Chuck:
Any means to heat the wax to 135-150 degrees.
I use a small cheap crock pot, and I use my Dim bulb tester to limit the heat after I have the wax melted.
You can use wax for cosmetics, or you can buy the Gulf brand Canning wax from the grocery store.
I like to lay my pickups on something to warm them. like a soldering iron cage.
That way the wax does not turn back to a solid around the pickup when you put it in the wax.
If you do anything with lots of heat, I would do it in a safe area, like outside.
I used to heat my wax in a coffee can with a small lamp flame under it.
I did this outside to be safe. I use a metal meat thermometer to regulate the heat.
Or if you want to send them to me I'll do it, if you will pay for the postage.
Shoot me a PM if I can help.
Terry

[Chuck H]

Or if you want to send them to me I'll do it, if you will pay for the postage.
Shoot me a PM if I can help.
Terry

That is a very kind offer. And it's affirming to see it. Restoration of faith in humanity, etc.

I do want to do this myself. For the experience. I have a single burner hotplate that I use for my home made smoker and a I have a light bulb limiter. But I think placing the pot on a flameproof insulator (like a cast iron block or a brick tile) may give more consistent results than the limiter since the burner plate is either "on" or "off" as it regulates temperature. I also have blocks of paraffin wax because my wife is a jammer, but no longer uses the wax. I will warm the pickups, work outside and be sure to have the wax at a stable temp before dipping. In my research here I learned that P90's may have softer plastic bobbins. So I'll target about 140F to be safe. I actually have quite a bit of layman pickup experience. Potting in varnish, repairing tiny shorts, replacing two conductor wiring with five conductor, etc. I've even swapped bobbins on factory humbuckers to create assymetrical pairs (sometimes with good results). The only time I ever ruined a pickup was adjusting the magnet height on a staggered strat pickup without warming it first. A very clumbsy mistake. That was over twenty years ago.

Thank you again. I'll monitor for a couple of days to see what else might pop up for advice.

[Bruce Johnson]

Chuck,

Another alternative is to do your potting with epoxy. I use a special epoxy called CPES, made by Smith & Co. (Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer)

The CPES epoxy has a viscosity like water. It's made for sealing up rotted wood, but it works beautifully for potting pickup coils. No cooking or vacuum tanks required. I hang a group of coils on a wire rod over a drip pan, and dab the CPES on with wool dauber. Or, you can dunk the coils in it if you want. The CPES immediately soaks completely through the coil, gluing all of the turns together. It dries in about 4 hours. It doesn't dry brittle-hard like superglue; it stays slightly rubbery. It's permanent, though. There's no way you're going to un-pot it.

I've been potting all of my pickups with CPES for about seven years, and I've never had any failures or microphonics issues. Test coils that I cut apart were completely bonded solid, all through. That's what you want with potting.

The only downside to the CPES is the fumes. It has a nasty solvent. You need some good ventilation while applying it, and while the coils are drying. Once they are dry, they don't smell.

I've been buying the Smith's CPES online from Star Distributing (http://star-distributing.com/shopsit...tml/page9.html)
CPES is also sold under the name of MultiWoodPrime; it's the same stuff. I bought a 2 quart kit and it's lasted me at least 5 years so far.

[Chuck H]

I was considering this route. But I can't be sure of the quality of insulation on the magnet wire for the Gibson reissue p'ups. Could be the hot epoxy solvent melts it!?! I'm also trying to do this soon and cheap. Since I already have materials and means I'll probably go with wax for this one. If I ever wind my own (with known quality magnet wire) I may try the epoxy.

[big_teee]

I was considering this route. But I can't be sure of the quality of insulation on the magnet wire for the Gibson reissue p'ups. Could be the hot epoxy solvent melts it!?! I'm also trying to do this soon and cheap. Since I already have materials and means I'll probably go with wax for this one. If I ever wind my own (with known quality magnet wire) I may try the epoxy.

I would stick with the wax.
It is really pretty easy.
You will do fine.
I did many with the coffee can and the burner, with the thermometer.
I like to pot them 10 to 15 minutes.
Good Luck,
T

[Bruce Johnson]

The CPES epoxy doesn't heat up at all, as far as I've been able to tell. The mixing cup doesn't get warm. It's a cold gluing process. You're more likely to damage weak insulation with the temperature cycles of the wax process.

[Joe Gwinn]

I have a single burner hotplate that I use for my home made smoker and a I have a light bulb limiter. But I think placing the pot on a flameproof insulator (like a cast iron block or a brick tile) may give more consistent results than the limiter since the burner plate is either "on" or "off" as it regulates temperature.

A traditional approach is a double boiler. I got a banged-up double boiler with cover at the local dump, and dedicated it to wax. There is no danger of fire, but be sure not to boil the bottom pot dry.

[big_teee]

Here's an Old Vid I had bookmarked in the Resources Thread.
It show's Making a Single coil Pickup from start to finish.
He Pots a Pickup in an interesting way at the end.
Kind of Double boiler, with a Vacuum on a fruit Jar.
I always take something away when I watch this Video.
The only thing I see, that I don't agree with is, He turns the eyelets up, instead of down.
Leaving something for the wire to snag on while winding.
T

[Mark Hammer]

This will be a bit of a heretical response, as it reflects the practices of someone who makes pickups for themselves rather than paying customers...

I use candles.

I lay the coil on its side, hold the candle over the coil, maybe about 6-8" above, bring the candle to melting point with a heat gun and let the wax drip/seep into the coil. Wait a few moments, flip the coil onto the other side, and repeat. Naturally, since the wax tends to solidify once the drips hit the coil, I have to then apply lower heat more proximally to get the wax liquid so that it seeps right in.

Soaking in from the outside will provide less wax to the inner windings. But, truth be told, those windings are the tightest of the lot. It's the outer windings that I find provide the greatest risk of microphonics. Again, keep in mind that I wind my coils using an old-fashioned manually-operated hand drill. If one has a motorized pro setup, the odds are much greater that the outer windings will have decent tension.

Personally, I prefer wax to other media. I once had to repair a Telecaster pickup that used varnish, and it was an absolute bear. I think the varnish may well have been the source of the need for repair, too. Some media can shrink over time, and tug at the wire. Wax may well shrink too, but it doesn'T have quite the grip on the wire that varnish does, so there is little risk that it will pull wire apart.

But, as I say, these are the practices of a rank amateur and hobbyist, not someone who makes pickups for a living on a daily basis, or has to contend with the varying bizarre playing conditions of customers. YMMV

[John_H]

Terry gave good advice about preheating your pickups. Otherwise it will take a very long time if ever to get total saturation. In the summertime, I set them in the sun for a while. When It's cool out I'll set them in front of a small space heater until they're hot to the touch.

I use a double boiler to warm the wax, and a candy thermometer to monitor the temperature. I use about a five to one ratio of paraffin/beeswax. I don't pot humbuckers unless it's requested.
.

[Mark Hammer]

This thread prompts me to wonder: What the dickens do people do for those pickups that are rather "busy" inside, like Dynasonics? Or are those the sort of thing where you can pot the coil and THEN stick all the internal architecture in there?

[big_teee]

This thread prompts me to wonder: What the dickens do people do for those pickups that are rather "busy" inside, like Dynasonics? Or are those the sort of thing where you can pot the coil and THEN stick all the internal architecture in there?

Probably just listen to them Squeal!

[Bruce Johnson]

This thread prompts me to wonder: What the dickens do people do for those pickups that are rather "busy" inside, like Dynasonics? Or are those the sort of thing where you can pot the coil and THEN stick all the internal architecture in there?

They probably use an epoxy potting compound, like the CPES or some of the MG Chemicals products. You can pot the coil with the CPES at any time in the process, without really affecting other parts nearby. Dunking the whole assembly isn't needed. I dab it on the coils, and it soaks into them thoroughly without really harming the bobbins or the magnets. It's thin, like water or superglue. It doesn't leave any real blobs or lumps. But the magnet wire is glued together into one solid mass. That's what potting is supposed to do, right?

[David Schwab]

Terry gave good advice about preheating your pickups. Otherwise it will take a very long time if ever to get total saturation. In the summertime, I set them in the sun for a while. When It's cool out I'll set them in front of a small space heater until they're hot to the touch.

I use a double boiler to warm the wax, and a candy thermometer to monitor the temperature. I use about a five to one ratio of paraffin/beeswax. I don't pot humbuckers unless it's requested.
.

But the wax is pretty hot, and gets the whole bobbin hot pretty quickly. You can sometimes see the wax turning solid when you first drop it in, but that only last a short time. Not even a minute. I leave my bobbins in for ten minutes, and the wax gets all the way inside. I only use paraffin.

Chuck, I use a paraffin warmer intended for people to stick their hands in. You can leave it running 24 hours a day and it regulates the temperature.