I Thought I Wound a Pickup but, Got an Ice Pick Instead

[mcgruff]

Hum. If they're out of phase they won't be humbucking so find a known source of noisy RFI (a computer maybe) and bring the guitar in close. Rotate it and move it around a bit just to make sure you're picking it up. it would help if you can listen to a single coil guitar and a humbucker guitar in the same spot so you know exactly what it should and shouldn't sound like. Humbuckers can pick up a little hum, but nothing like a single coil.

Incidentally, I like to use polymide tape. The glue is quite weak (at least it is on the roll I've got) so you can remove it without damaging the coil, so long as you're careful. It's also got a cool metallic sheen which makes my pickups sound better.

Another thing you can do is wrap a layer or two of (non-sticky) plumber's PTFE tape onto a bare coil before applying the usual sticky tape. I wouldn't want to finish off a coil with plumber's tape though - far too fragile.

[mcgruff]

PS: do you count number of turns? Didn't see that mentioned. I guess original PAFs weren't too exact but I think it's really important to count turns. I always keep a note of this plus inductance, resistance & capacitance for each coil, and then I record some (DI'd) audio samples of each finished humbucker with different magnets. This helps to figure out a precise formula which will give me the kind of tone I want with the materials I've got to work with.

[rjb]

If they're out of phase they won't be humbucking

...And if only one coil is functional, it won't be humbucking.....

[rjb]

If I'm reading posts #10 and 12 correctly, the concern is that you shunted one of the coils by connecting both ends to ground.

Let me try to say that more clearly.
The two black Finish leads should be tied to each other, and to nothing else. NOT to ground.

[mcgruff]

yeah that too

[old guy]

PS: do you count number of turns? Didn't see that mentioned. I guess original PAFs weren't too exact but I think it's really important to count turns. I always keep a note of this plus inductance, resistance & capacitance for each coil, and then I record some (DI'd) audio samples of each finished humbucker with different magnets. This helps to figure out a precise formula which will give me the kind of tone I want with the materials I've got to work with.

slug = 5750 turns
screw= 5450 turns
total dcr= 8.6k ... my target

I may be wound too tight. I'm just gonna rewind these bobbins looser and slower.

One vendor says 1018 slugs & screws should be replaced with 1215s.

[mcgruff]

slug = 5750 turns
screw= 5450 turns

That's in the zone.

[Rude Dog]

Caps are not used as I'm going alligator clips to braid and hot,then clipped to Switchcraft jack. I don't want any 'coloration' of the tone at this point.

Try with a cap unless you plan to not use them.

That "coloration" could very well pull the ice pick out of your ear.

[old guy]

You GUYS ROCK!!!!

OK ... you guys were RIGHT ON!!!! I hooked the pup in question up to the 500k v&t controls and the icepick has disappeared. Problem now is - where did the volume go??? The neck Burstbucker 1 (Les Paul Standard), is a 7.9K - as is my 57 Classic in SG Standard - and, my creation (for the bridge) is a 8.6k. This dcr should really over power the neck yet it still remains about 75% less in volume. I spun it around so the slug side was bridge side and that did nothing. Pup is almost 'noiseless', does NOT sound out of phase in either position and, is set in height to almost touching the strings.
We're getting close ....

It's amazing ... I've been an active performer nationally, all over Canada and, have garnered records in Europe. This is, I have to tell you, a new found respect for something I've taken forgranted for over 40 years ... a flippin' pickup

[rjb]

...should really over power the neck yet it still remains about 75% less in volume....set in height to almost touching the strings.

How low is the neck pickup?
Try it lower.

[mcgruff]

If you're using an AII magnet, AIV or AV should increase output a little (if they're fully magnetised).

How do you like the tone of the new pickup?

[big_teee]

OK ... you guys were RIGHT ON!!!! I hooked the pup in question up to the 500k v&t controls and the icepick has disappeared. Problem now is - where did the volume go??? The neck Burstbucker 1, is a 7.9K and my creation (for the bridge) is a 8.6k. This dcr should really over power the neck yet it still remains about 75% less in volume. I spun it around so the slug side was bridge side and that did nothing. Pup is almost 'noiseless', does NOT sound out of phase in either position and, is set in height to almost touching the strings.
We're getting close ....

It's amazing ... I've been an active performer nationally, all over Canada and, have garnered records in Europe. This is, I have to tell you, a new found respect for something I've taken forgranted for over 40 years ... a flippin' pickup

Congrats, sounds like your getting real close.
The position of the pickup, like we talked about earlier is why the neck is so much louder.
Also you may might want to go down to lower DCR on the neck, and full coils on the bridge.
I like a neck around 7.1k to 7.3k, like the Seth Lover, or the Pearly Gates.
You probably have all you can get on the butyrate bobbins, for the bridge pickup.
Also try the neck pickup closer to ring level, and the bridge about 1/8 to 3/16" from the strings.
T

[Stratz]

The position of the pickup, like we talked about earlier is why the neck is so much louder.

Good advice but I don't think that's the problem Terry. He's got 11,000+ winds on the bridge pickup. Should be plenty loud enough.

Possibly a low charge on the bar magnet or something still screwy in the wiring.

[big_teee]

Good advice but I don't think that's the problem Terry. He's got 11,000+ winds on the bridge pickup. Should be plenty loud enough.

Possibly a low charge on the bar magnet or something still screwy in the wiring.

That could be.
I've had magnets where they were not strong on the ends, and the E strings were weak.
I've had humbucker guitars that have done what he's talking about.
Also he mentioned that it was louder, I think he said without all the pots.
So I would recheck your wiring diagram.
There are different ways to wire them but the standard way is a good place to start.
Wiring Diagram
T

[old guy]

This particular problem pup is being mated to a Neck positioned 57 Classic which measures in @ 7.9k... SG Standard. This 57 stays there for life! What got me going on this winding stuff is the fact that I've spent a lot of money searching for an appropriate sounding Bridge pup with the same 'airiness' or 'jangle' or 'definition' as this 57 in the Neck. The 498T, the 490, the Burstbucker 2, the 57 Classic have all 'sucked' in this bridge position as their overall output was at the least, equal to but mostly less than that of the 57 in the Neck. Monday or Tuesday coming, I'll post some 'honest' mp3 clips somewhere for yaz to hear. By 'honest' I mean flat with zero processing.

The neck pup at this time has been flush with body top. The new build is a stinckin' millimeter or 2 from the strings ... it can't get any higher without suckin' down the strings.
I've gone through the whole magnet stash ... A2, A3, A4 & A5 as well as flipping head over heel - not rolling over on their side. They are fully charged according to vendor. I buy them in groups of 4 so I can have selection.

They are wired as per the Gibson SG Standard schematic which was not posted on Gibson's site. Bob in support, emailed me the actual from 1995 and it happens to be the 50's wiring mod right out of the factory.
Even though it is now being wired with the V&T pots as well as the stock cap, it is still quieter ... only the icepick has disappeared. Pots are brand new Historic Spec 518k on tone, 524k on Volume.

Butryte bobbins could still take another 1000 turns, me thinks ... but, that's not for me.
How does it sound right now? Aside from the lower output problem, it's a very what I would call R&R sound. It's the type of sound you'd use all day playing with an overdrive pedal or gain'd up on your amp. I like the cleaner tones like that of a 57 and when overdrive is needed, I like to work the tubes and paper cones with my volume control for creamy distortion. I believe the tonal result is because of the 8.6k .

I gotta tell you guys ... everything is now done 101% right. I believe it's time to look at the overpriced dark purple plain enamel wire, maybe too much scatter, maybe not enough, for some reason I personally suspect in my analism, I wrapped too tight, maybe there's something to the bare 1018 slugs & screws ... like one of yaz said ... it's gonna take a few or more attempts to get it right.
Have a great weekend and I look forward to posting clips and hearing your responses.