problems with strat pickups

[John Archer]

Hi guys,
I just started to wind strat pickups a couple of months ago and I have some questions. I wound three pickups using a standard 7/16 inch bobbin with pe wire measuring 5.8k, 6.0k, and 6.25k. I also used a pretty wide scatter while winding although the finished coil appears uniform. I also used a5 mags fully saturated below the wound strings (about 1000g) but degaussed the g, b, and e mags to about 500g. My test guitar is a Mexican standard strat with alder/rosewood. I left them unpotted because I really liked the way they sound. I'm going for a mid 60s type of sound. I really like the way they turned out but when I sent them to a friend for testing, he surprisingly thought they were kind of muddy and unfocused sounding along with low output for his tastes.. disappointing to say the least.. if anything I was worried he would of thought they were too bright... any thoughts? any advice? Did I maybe degauss the treble string mags too much? Thanks in advance guys.
Take care,
John

[big_teee]

Welcome John.
There may not be anything worng with your pickups, and Your friend may just like Hotter Single coils.
Maybe you can get some input on what others do.
I wind a similar set, but I always charge my magnets to full strength.
I usually make the bridge pickup hotter.
So, just make another set, with different specs.
Make a set with say a 6k neck, 6.3k middle, and make a full coil bridge, say 6.6-6.8k.
or a Set that is 6.2k, 6.5k, 42awg, and maybe a 8-10k 43awg bridge pickup?
I would make this set with full strength magnets, then you can compare them.
You can also combine A2, and A5 Rod magnets.
I make a A2, A5 set I call a 4/2 set, the E, & A big strings are A5s all else A2s.
You can try different Staggered sets, the options are endless.
Also, Pictures would be great.
Anyone else want to share what you like in a Single coil set?
T

[John Archer]

Thank you very much for your insight Terry..I will definitely try some of those combos and report back.
John

[David Schwab]

I find too much scatter makes the pickups sound unfocused and a little soft in the high end. I agree with T too about the fully changed magnets. There seems to be this trend lately with making the top end of pickups softer sounding. Maybe it has something to do with the amps and pedals people use now. I like a brighter top end and a lot of snap, especially for the bridge pickup. I can get soft/smooth using the neck pickup. Or turn the tone control down a little.

When you make changes to a design, do one thing at a time, or you won't know which change made the difference.

[John Archer]

Thank you David..I have read many different viewpoints on scatter winding and I am trying to figure out the right amount of scatter, pattern, and tension.. Trial and error I guess .. like most good winders have probably done until they have honed their technique.

[SonnyW]

I agree too with David and Teee. Less scatter and fully charged mags. I have a '65 set that my customers have really liked so far. I wind all three P/U's to around 6.0K, with 42 PE. I am using a machine wind with nearly no scatter to it, medium to low tension (only 20g vs. usually 30-35) and kind of a middle of the road [number expunged] TPL. I use A5's fully charged, and staggered to the 1965 spec which was .688, .688, .719, .719 .630, and .656. I put a pretty heavy bevel on them also for this design. I think the amount of bevel does make a small contribution, especially if the customer is talking about wanting a more focused sound. Spacing between the forbon I think makes a difference too, for this one I like .425- .430. I pot them completely. 20 minutes in the wax with a timer. If this design seems too bright, remember too that the mid 60's strats used a lot darker cap (.1uF) that made a difference too. For my original custom wind customer who was trying to nail the Hendrix tones the .1uF cap made a big difference on the bridge. It kind of sounds like to me that your customer likes them hotter, so YMMV. Also, muddy doesn't usually go with low output, so that makes me think the low charge has something to do with it.

[big_teee]

I forgot to mention the .1uf disk Cap but Sonny Remembered.
With the .1uf Cap I use all 250k Pots.
I wind most of my Strat neck coils with 42HPN Heavy Poly Nylon.
The Heavy build wire IMO gives that bell ringing woody strat Tone.
I do similar with middle pickups.
On bridge pickups everyone around here likes a hotter pickup.
So for the bridge I use 42 SPN, Single poly, and I wind a full coil.
I do 11mm spacing on neck and middle, and I to do a .425" spaced bridge Near full coil.

T

[John Archer]

Thanks again guys... definitely food for thought. I will try the beveled mags and wind with less scatter and tension. Also.. the slightly taller coils in the neck and middle should give a more bright clear sound while the shorter bridge should sound fatter. I will experiment with different tpls and let you guys know what I come up with.

Thanks!
John

[Lyrebird Steve]

I've stopped sending pickups to friends for testing as individual pickups.

I send them a fully loaded pickguard, with a micro screw terminal for connecting the Output Jack and ground to.

This removes the variables such as
- pot values (I use 250k)
- capacitor values
- pickup height (to some degree)

It also makes it easy for me to ensure everything is wired correctly (eg in phase) and it also minimises risk of damage to individual pickups.

Pick-guards fit nicely into an A4 sized bubble-wrap pocket for posting as well

[John Archer]

Thank you for the pickguard idea Steve..I think I will give it a try.

[big_teee]

A loaded Pickguard is a great way to show and test your pickups.
Here's some I've built in the past.
You may have seen these before.
They might give you some ideas.
I always add the large piece of shielding foil.

[John Archer]

Nice work Terry . looks very professional and well organized.. Will construct a pickguard or two.
Thanks,
John