Dearmond Mustache with low ouput

[skumberg]

I'm new here so first I'll say hello to everybody.

I recently got two Dearmond pickups from 1967 in a trade for a pedal. They look very much like the model 55 pickup on this page: http://musicpickups.com/images/21857432.jpg.

They have adjustable pole pieces and are attached to that metal plate. Difference is the cover cut outs are of the mustache pattern. They both measure 9.5K. I have only tried one of them and the problem is that the output is really low and dull compared to humbucker I use. A normal 8k HB type with alnico A3 magnet. And as I move the Dearmond closer to the strings ouput rises somewhat but then the pole pieces start to pull on the strings giving distortion. So I removed the pole pieces and now I can get the pickup real close to the strings without getting magnetic pull, the ouput is high and treble is better.

So I wonder, is it possible that these magnets need a recharge? I thought these pickups should be high output with plenty of bite. I guess I should solder in the other one and compare as well. I'm thinking of buying some of those square neo magnets for recharging and perhaps a A1302 for measuring.


Edit: I might have posted this thread to fast. The problem seems to be getting a good height and pole piece setup. I'm not used to these pickups. The strength of the pole pieces varies greatly depending on how deep they sit. They have greatest pull furthest out from the pickups.

[big_teee]

Welcome!
Not familiar with your pickup, maybe some more pictures, of how it's made.
If no gauss meter, you can take the end of a metal punch or other steel.
Take the steel material, and compare the magnetic pull of that pickup with others you have.
Maybe the magnets need recharging, or like you say, it may need adjusting.
Maybe others will jump in here that know more about DeArmonds.
T

[skumberg]

It is a rubber magnet pickup, the magnet is some soft rubbery material. The pole pieces thread through the grey plastic sheet, this sheet is then hold in place by the magnetic pull of the magnet on the pole screws. The rubber magnet is drilled through completely to the steel(?) base. The pole screws are actually longer than the thickness of the magnet so they can't be screwed completely down. All this is coverd by a thin black plastic sheet and the metal cover which should be riveted in place. I managed to use screws from beneath instead of rivets, but I suspect these act as extra pole pieces. Perhaps this is why I often get distortion on the thick E string.

I put one of the pole screws on the slugs of a humbucker and compared the magnetic pull with the rubber magnet. The rubber magnet pull just as much or even a bit more. So there definitely is charge left.

I guess I need to do some more experimenting. It seems much harder to adjust this thing to sound good than p90/hb/strat pickups. Sometimes I get a good sound on some strings but then another would distort. I guess the problem also lies with the guitar, it has rather high string action(bad fretjob) so the string distance vary a lot depending where I play on the fretboard. But the problems don't appear on a HB pickup.

[jonson]

I've spent a fair amount of time cloneing some of the Dearmond pick-ups and allthough I've had rubber magnets made (without holes) and alnico and ceramic magnets both with and without holes I've still not got round to making any of these pole piece types. The only thing I feel about this is that the magnets are charged top to bottom so when the pole screw goes fully in it's touching both n and s poles which means fully screwed in I would say they are doing very little and out then acting as a pole piece. Right out and the pick-up up close to the strings it will be just like the hershy bars and gold foils especially at 9.5k and I suspect 43awg wire. I've found all sorts of mags and different gauges of wire on Dearmonds and I don't think it was go with what was available it was all designed to give different power to the pick-ups Harry made. Iv'e never found an identical rivet to the origionals so I use small brass machine screws and nuts and as the heads are cheese head types then easy to stick in the lathe and one tool makes the head look like a rivet then a quick wipe with silver polish finishes it without adding 2 more pole pieces as you say.
Hi Terry and sorry I cannot add any more.

[skumberg]

Thanks for the help jonson and big_tee. After reading and playing some more I now suspect the pickups are working pretty much as they should. I must fit some proper machine screws of brass as you say, non magnetic. Good tip, thanks!

When adjusting the pole screws to close to the strings I have harsh distortion on attack of notes, a bit lower then it goes in to a zangy springy sound, then a more normal sound and finally it gets low and muffled when the poles loose strenght in lowest position. I need to find the sweet spot were it works on all playing positions and types of strumming. And perhaps my test guitar doesn't allow me to do that.

[rjb]

When adjusting the pole screws.... I need to find the sweet spot were it works on all playing positions and types of strumming.

Just to reiterate what Jonson said- if you remove the pole screws you essentially have a hershy bar or gold foil.
It may look funny, but you may find you like that sound best.
(Just save the screws for when you resell the pickup to a courque sniffer!)

[skumberg]

Just to reiterate what Jonson said- if you remove the pole screws you essentially have a hershy bar or gold foil.
It may look funny, but you may find you like that sound best.
(Just save the screws for when you resell the pickup to a courque sniffer!)

Yes this is one good option. I also tried to put a shorter hex set screw as a pole piece. I works pretty good. Not much difference from no pole screws, perhaps a bit more clarity, but there is something in the holes at least.

[big_teee]

Thanks for the help jonson and big_tee. After reading and playing some more I now suspect the pickups are working pretty much as they should. I must fit some proper machine screws of brass as you say, non magnetic. Good tip, thanks!

When adjusting the pole screws to close to the strings I have harsh distortion on attack of notes, a bit lower then it goes in to a zangy springy sound, then a more normal sound and finally it gets low and muffled when the poles loose strenght in lowest position. I need to find the sweet spot were it works on all playing positions and types of strumming. And perhaps my test guitar doesn't allow me to do that.

I'm still trying to understand the pickup.
Is the whitest gray piece that the screws are in is that the magnet?
And, the magnet is on top of the bobbin, not on the bottom?
T

[jonson]

The magnet is in the centre of the coil Terry which is between the zintec steel bottom plate and the grey top plate. The black is just a cover to show up through the cover cut outs similar to the gold embossed foil of the gold foil pick-ups. Mags start out like this before the ends are shaped although Harry may have had them shaped and cast all in one.