Humbucker Construction Tips - help needed

[Lyrebird Steve]

Hi Guys,

I've made a small number of humbuckers, but I just can't seem to make/construct them in a timeframe that would make it economically viable for me to produce.

For a pair

- The winding of the bobbins and set up of the winder takes almost an hour.
- Soldering of the start/end leads to the coils - which I am very anxious about, as I need to sand (?) the PE coating off - takes an hour
- Wax Potting - 20 mins
- Construction/Assembly an hour or more

So, I'm running around 3.5 to 4 hours per set. Surely this has to be way way longer than it should take.

Any tips (particularly with the start/end leads) gratefully accepted

Thanks
Steve

[big_teee]

I would call that pretty fast.
Humbuckers are a time intensive pickup.
I have built lots of regular humbuckers, and don't mind it.
The small mini rail strat buckers are the ones that take me forever.
Especially if you cut and machine your own blades.
I use different sizes of Poly wire, so no sanding required.
Sound wise I never have been convinced of an advantage of PE.
It is pretty, and vintage, and I have some of it, I use the SP because of the cost factor.
I test each set of humbuckers in a guitar so I can add another hour or two to the time.
One trick, on the start lead if you like to run it out the bottom like days of old?
Is to stick the wire thru the hole and wrap a couple rounds then put a small piece of paper tape over the solder joint.
That way if it shorts to the wire it will only be a round or two.
Lots of guys do both start and finish on the top, I still like the start out the bottom.
Another time consuming factor of humbuckers is the 4 wire cable with shield.
You have 3 options.
The bare braid push back wire, the two wire with shield, or the 4 wire cable with shield.
The 4 wire cable is the most time consuming to wire up, and I get a $5 upcharge for 4 wire, because of the labor.
I like the 2 wire with shield, it allows polarity changing, but is small and easy to wire.
Maybe others will jump in.
T

[dwmorrin]

[QUOTE=Lyrebird Steve;327295]
- Soldering of the start/end leads to the coils - which I am very anxious about, as I need to sand (?) the PE coating off - takes an hour
/QUOTE]

Steve, is that correct? 1 hour of sanding and soldering seems wrong. I could see either of these skills as taking some practice, but with practice you should become much faster and you're anxiety is going to disappear once you get your methods down.

[jonson]

You said quite a bit Steve in that first sentance that you have wound very few humbuckers aand the more you do the quicker you will get. Look at all parts of your process and see if it's needed and as Teeeeee said look at wire that you don't need to sand. I'm opposite to Teee as PE comes into it a lot but wax potting humbuckers doesn't. Have you experienced squeal that means you have to pot them or can you cut that rather long 20 mins down. Use a batt drill and tap you pole screw holes and use same tool to assemble and your times will come down if you feel you are needing to make enough to get a living from it or just live with it and enjoy the work. I don't make many pickups as I only make for my own guitars and challenges when they come along and get just as much fun out of making parts but all I do I look at ways to cut the corners and speed it up to allow more time for something else.

[big_teee]

You said quite a bit Steve in that first sentance that you have wound very few humbuckers aand the more you do the quicker you will get. Look at all parts of your process and see if it's needed and as Teeeeee said look at wire that you don't need to sand. I'm opposite to Teee as PE comes into it a lot but wax potting humbuckers doesn't. Have you experienced squeal that means you have to pot them or can you cut that rather long 20 mins down. Use a batt drill and tap you pole screw holes and use same tool to assemble and your times will come down if you feel you are needing to make enough to get a living from it or just live with it and enjoy the work. I don't make many pickups as I only make for my own guitars and challenges when they come along and get just as much fun out of making parts but all I do I look at ways to cut the corners and speed it up to allow more time for something else.

Good discussion!
I do the same thing Jonson does with the #5 tap in the cordless drill.
Do it from the rear, and that cuts down on the scratches.
I pot all pickups I sell.
That cuts down on issues with customers.
I have some of my own guitars with unpotted pickups.
On sanding PE, just scuff them litely with 400 grit.
Then a good hot Iron will burn off the rest.
On potting, make one pickup, pot it while you are working on the next one, that way the time is multi tasking.
If all you make is strat coils, all other pickups do more time Suck!
Like Jonson said, you will get faster!
T

[Lyrebird Steve]

Steve, is that correct? 1 hour of sanding and soldering seems wrong.

This is why I was asking. By the time I lay some paper tape, sand the end gently and solder and then lay against the coil and tape over it ... that's getting about 3-5 mins per joint. So 8x this and I'm around 40 minutes ... inevitably I have a 0 reading on a coil and have to repeat the process on that coil.

It may well be my soldering technique or that I'm doing it free handed (no stand or jig for holding) that could be the issue. Or as Tee says, perhaps I should just use Poly until I get better at it

[Lyrebird Steve]

Use a batt drill and tap you pole screw holes and use same tool to assemble and your times will come down

Yes, thanks ... this gets tedious

if you feel you are needing to make enough to get a living from it or just live with it and enjoy the work

It's not so much that I want to make a living from making pickups (although that would be nice) ... it's that when I'm asked to build a set for friends, it's coming in around $80-100 for parts for a set (yeah, shipping to Australia kills me) and it's under $200 for a set of Seymour Duncans

Effectively I'd be paying myself minimum wage for my time (which having a young family is limited)

[jonson]

So Steve if it's under $200 for a duncan set what is the cost of cheap asian pickups compared to parts and strip and rewind to your own specs.

[big_teee]

Minimum Wage?
I don't think I've ever made Near that Much!
On the free hand soldering?
I have 2 of these.
Makes life much easier.
Aligator clip vise.
The base is not large enough, and I super glue the small vise base to a 1/4" x 4 inch square piece of steel plate, for stability.

If you're trying to meet a price point I would use 42 SPN for sure.
I never mention the wire type, and don't think I've had anyone ask about SPN, PE, and HFV.
Most conversations are strictly about tonal qualities.
T

[ken]

Humbuckers are the most labor intensive pickups to make - a total time suck.

That being said, pickup making is a labor of love, and *nobody* gets into it thinking they are going to get rich.

ken

[Lyrebird Steve]

Aligator clip vise.
The base is not large enough, and I super glue the small vise base to a 1/4" x 4 inch square piece of steel plate, for stability.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]26667[/ATTACH]

I have one of these, but the darn thing keeps toppling over...I like the added base plate idea Terry

[Lyrebird Steve]

So Steve if it's under $200 for a duncan set what is the cost of cheap asian pickups compared to parts and strip and rewind to your own specs.

I've looked into this and of the China Humbuckers I've had my hands on these are common build specs
- Huge chunk of ceramic magnet - I pulled an 8mm (1/3") thick mag out of one
- Tend to have 2 slug sides (51mm between centres of outside pole pieces)
- Short leg, very thin baseplates. Some are brass, some are made of aluminium or tin.
- wound with 43 (11k) or 44 (16k) SPN


While I could simply rewind these and put in an AlNiCo mag I'm not sure I'd be happy with the overall quality of the parts.

However, something like this could be a bit of a project

[big_teee]

Steve:
Have you considered buying parts from Montreux in Japan.
Shipping may be cheaper for you, I don't know.
You have to register, and they have some fine replica pickup and guitar parts.
Here is their dealer price list.
Montreux 2010 Pickup Parts Dealer Price List
You may want to check it out.
It says 2010, but that is the current one listed.
T

[jason lollar]

you could knock a huge chunk of time using a faster machine- it should only take 3 to 5 minutes to wind a humbucker coil hand guided. If set up time is appreciable- it should take 5 minutes or less to set the machine but if it takes longer dedicate a machine to it and dont change it.
Soldering shouldnt take more that a few minutes per joint- keep practicing. Assembly- same thing, use a power driver. You can buy drivers that will torque down to almost nothing Ingersoll Rand ES60P From Flexible Assembly Systems Inc
you can find these used with power supply for 100 to 200 dollars if you look- you can set them so low they will never strip a brass wood screw out of the bucker.
Other than that practice, pratice- if it was as easy as people say that have never actually made pickups there would be a zillion guys making a living at it.
Antother thing to consider is would you really want to do that all day long every day?- it takes a certain type of attitude not to get bored out of your skull and to keep quality up to 100% of your level and production time at your minimum- whatever that number is.

[David King]

Heck with a screw driver like that you could wind pickups on it too!