Total Noob Beginner - PLEASE HELP!!!!

[frankedelic83]

hello guys,
just registered on here as i am currently working on my first luthiery venture, where i am building my first 7 string guitar.
i am UK based and i have a ton of questions!!! please please help me as i don't know where to start...


first of all, i am unable to make a winder so i will have to wind by hand (or more like electric drill method...)
I know what i want to achieve, but i am unsure where to get all the parts to do so.

i really like the way Bareknuckle humbucker pickups look when battleworn and i must admit i really like the way they look when they have 2 rows of hexscrews but want to wind my own.

i decided i would get the parts separately online, maybe via ebay. but i am not sure if the hexscrews i am after are the magnets??? (STUPID question number one...)

if so, can i get any hex screw from any hardware store and just magnetize them????? and if so how???? what exactly do i need to buy to make sure i know what gauss value i need? (keep it cheap please as i am on a budget).

i want to buy the schaller pickup covers to make them look sexy, can they fit any old pickup? what do i need to research???

i am reading the winding guide by mr Loller. so i am grasping the broadstrokes here but could do with the expert advice of live and breathing human beings

thanks a million,

a Noob

[ric]

Hi, welcome. There are many pickup wonders here, so I hope you get the help you want. I don't wind, but can answer two questions. Hex screws from the hardware will work if they are the right size to fit your bobbins. They are magnetized by virtue of the magnet you'll be putting underneath, between the bobbins. So get screws that are attracted to a magnet. Stainless steel, for instance, is not usually a good choice.
As far as pickup covers go, you will want to match the spacing of the poles (screws in your case) with the string spread of your guitar. I don't know the options for 7 string, but "f spacing", for instance, on a 6 string is wider to fit with the string spread of a Floyd Rose trem/ vibrato. This isn't mandatory, lots of pickups don't exactly match the strings, but it's something to think about.
Hope this helps. -ric

[Lyrebird Steve]

Hi & welcome.

To start off I would look at purchasing an existing 7 string humbucker pickup and then doing some easy mods to them:

(1) Magnet swapping
(2) Coil swapping between pickups
(3) Removing some wraps to produce mismatched coils
(4) wiring them with 4 conductor wiring for parallel/serial in/out of phase sounds

Jump on eBay and search for

"Ibanez RG7321" these only have one row of Hex poles but come in around $15

Other pickup models for Ibanez with Hex poles are the V77 and V87 - I've seen these for about $10
DiMarzio made pickups for the Ibanez 7620 ... these have the 2 rows of Hex poles but will probably come in around $50 each


There are lots of low cost brand new models on the market (Anvil, for example) that you can mess with without breaking the bank.

Enjoy the journey

here's a great starting point pull it apart to see how these hang together and work $6.25

[frankedelic83]

thank so much for the replies guys!
very helpful. however i want to experience the full spectrum of making my own guitar and pickups so i was wanting to buy all things from different places to make my very own blend of pickups.

i was thinking of starting by purchasing some pickup covers, such as the schaller ones but i can't seem to find 14 hole chrome ones so far... then i would buy 4 single bobbins to go for the set of pickups (any four would do as long as they fit the spacing on the schaller)

then the wire.

i wanted to make a hot sounding pickup, something to play in a high gain amp and get a nice heavy tone from, but was unsure what kind of wiring i would need (does it depend on thickness?) i know that the more winds the more the pickup becomes "hot"? but not sure about copper cable thickness.

i can then get the hex screws (both sides with hex screws so no poles, purely esthetic for me), they need to be magnetised in a certain way so that they react with the magnet?

Frankie

[ric]

Hey Frankie.
Steve is being very sensible and suggesting a less expensive way to get your feet wet with pickups. If you want to dive into the deep end of the pool then there are things to consider...
Yes, different wire gauges will give different tone. So will how many turns, the size and type of base plate, cover type and material (or lack of cover), and so forth. There are many variables and some people spend their lives chasing the possibilities. Getting parts and making a pickup will get one sound (hopefully),.and changing something and doing it again will give you a different result. So really your options are infinite, and that can get expensive.
If you build a traditional humbucker the magnet I mentioned in my first response will couple it's magnetic field through your pole pieces, no further magnetising is necessary.
Steve mentioned, as well as trying different magnet types, try different amounts of winding on your two bobbins (or "pups"). I have put two different pups together, and it sounded very good.
Best of luck with your project. I love to experiment too, and I have the box of dead pickups to prove it!
Working towards a goal is a learning experience, Steve's ideas are an excellent way to learn without dumping your life saving into this.

[copperheadroads]

hello guys,
just registered on here as i am currently working on my first luthiery venture, where i am building my first 7 string guitar.
i am UK based and i have a ton of questions!!! please please help me as i don't know where to start...


first of all, i am unable to make a winder so i will have to wind by hand (or more like electric drill method...)
I know what i want to achieve, but i am unsure where to get all the parts to do so.

i really like the way Bareknuckle humbucker pickups look when battleworn and i must admit i really like the way they look when they have 2 rows of hexscrews but want to wind my own.

i decided i would get the parts separately online, maybe via ebay. but i am not sure if the hexscrews i am after are the magnets??? (STUPID question number one...)

if so, can i get any hex screw from any hardware store and just magnetize them????? and if so how???? what exactly do i need to buy to make sure i know what gauss value i need? (keep it cheap please as i am on a budget).

i want to buy the schaller pickup covers to make them look sexy, can they fit any old pickup? what do i need to research???

i am reading the winding guide by mr Loller. so i am grasping the broadstrokes here but could do with the expert advice of live and breathing human beings

thanks a million,

a Noob

You shoild take the solid advise given & not attempt to handwind a hot humbucker too soon ,using the very thin & delicate 44 gauge wire .you will probably end up with nothing only a bad experience .

[Lyrebird Steve]

i want to experience the full spectrum of making my own guitar and pickups

Excellent, this forum is a great place to start

i can then get the hex screws (both sides with hex screws so no poles, purely esthetic for me), they need to be magnetised in a certain way so that they react with the magnet?

I'll suggest again that you buy a cheap pickup and pull it apart and see how it works. Here is a link to Stewart Mac's instructions for Humbucker assembly have a read through it, it will answer a few questions you haven't asked yet.

It may well be cheaper to buy 2nd hand pickups and re-wind them than acquiring all the parts individually and having them shipped to you.

StewMac have lots of supplies you may need, check the sticky note on Suppliers attached to the Beginner/Hobbyist section of the forum. Lots of great info in there as well.

Good luck

[Peter Naglitsch]

Although I agree that without a winder you have a tough road ahead of you I would like to give you a hint about a pickup parts wholesaler: Mojotone.
Get four slug side bobbins
http://www.mojotone.com/guitar-parts...k#.U8ulSBZfF0Y
2 7-string base plates
http://www.mojotone.com/guitar-parts...r#.U8ulYhZfF0Y
They have an assortment of magnets, go for at least 2.4" long Alnico or Ceramic, suggest that you use ceramic magnets as it will give you a bit more clarity
http://www.mojotone.com/guitar-parts/Bar-Magnets
and pickup wire here
Pickup Wire
Get the "poly Nylon" version as you can solder that without any other preparation.
Use standard ferrite (magnetic) hex screws from the hardware store

Now you say that you want a high gain pickup. Why? Most amps today have enough gain to compensate for any output of the pickups. Just crank it up! And if you go for more moderate pickup output you have two pros:
- Fewer turns by hand (at at least 5000 turns per bobbin you will start to appreciate that)
- Thicker wire is easier to handle and will cause less frustration. I took me loooong time to learn how to handle 44AWG wire. I cannot even imagine to do it completely by hand.
My heartfelt recommendation is to stick to the standard 5000 turns per bobbin as you get the above benefits, and IMHO extended range guitar benefit from weaker pickups rather than overly hot once and 7'th or even 8'th string often just turn into muddy mush with hot pickups.

[Mike Sulzer]

Now you say that you want a high gain pickup. Why? Most amps today have enough gain to compensate for any output of the pickups.

And certainly the gismos that go between the guitar and amp can add as much gain as anybody can use.

There is more to a high gain pickup than just a higher signal output level. It also has the kind of sound that works well with very high levels of distortion: a low resonant frequency and a high resistance that helps damp the resonance. (The distortion adds harmonics that fill in the sound.) However, the sound of a pickup can be modified with electronic components in the guitar to achieve this without an excessive number of turns. I think this is the better approach, although it is rarely done.

[Lyrebird Steve]

Use standard ferrite (magnetic) hex screws from the hardware store

Also available from Addiction FX for $0.14 each

[nicholaspaul]

I can concur that jumping in with both feet winding pickups is a shortcut to frustration. I have a tendency to reinvent wheels and change umpteen parameters and once and then wonder why something doesn't work, but with pickups undecided to start a little safer. Ok, I had to make my own bobbins (still kicking myself for that one) but I started with 42awg wire. It's easier to handle and while the breakages were still occasional, they weren't anywhere near they would have been with something as fragile as 44. Yikes.

I have a simple setup involving a drill, a drive belt and gears (plus a counter - don't bother if you don't have a counter). It takes all my concentration to keep the right tension and stop the wire from going over the edge of the bobbin. So if I had to so something else (like chew gum or even try to maintain a constant speed on the drill with the other hand, I'd have a lot more accidents. Simply put, a drill isn't really the way to go. Take the time and put together a winder. With a counter. Did I mention that you need a counter?

Just my thoughts...

[big_teee]

nicholas
I wound countless pickups for over 4 years with a drill mounted in a jig, no counter.
I actually got pretty good results with it.
What it sounds like you're missing, is a wire guide with adjustable stops, mounted no more than 6 inches from the winder.
If you don't have the wire guide, I recommend making one.
GL,
T

[nicholaspaul]

nicholas
I wound countless pickups for over 4 years with a drill mounted in a jig, no counter.
I actually got pretty good results with it.
What it sounds like you're missing, is a wire guide with adjustable stops, mounted no more than 6 inches from the winder.
If you don't have the wire guide, I recommend making one.
GL,
T

Good plan. Thanks for the tip, T.

Hang on a sec... so how are you comparing and learning from different winds? Are you winding to resistance instead of turns, or just filling up bobbins?

[Mick Bailey]

You don't say why you're unable to make a winder. An inexpensive, effective winder can be made without machine tools in a few hours and can save a lot of frustration with broken windings and allow you to concentrate on wire tension and getting the build even. Stops are essential in my view, regardless of your setup.

BTW, Brocott's in the UK is a good source for 'poly' wire. Cheap enough to make a few mistakes without the cost being a deal-breaker. A 500g spool will wind you plenty.