Melody Maker pickups

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
Sorry about that it is listed on Google books I don't know how to down load the information.

[big_teee]

This may be the sight where SpareRibs was looking.
Gibson Electric Steel Guitars: 1935-1967 - A. R. Duchossoir - Google Books

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
Yes that is the site, I am just pretty illiterate when it comes to moving things around on the computer. I am wondering why a little more information is not available as most lap steels would be pretty old by now and a lot of pickups would need to be rewound. The fact that the pickups are always in a horizontal position would make them much more vulnerable to bangs, clangs, and spills.
I now think I know why the pickups with the (metal flanges) were discontinued. It would probably be a financial decision as the 7/8" pickups would have been more labor intensive to mass produce. It would require stamping out flat work, forming flanges, and a more in depth assembly process. So under the guise of (cutting corners) progress, that style of pickup was shelved in favor of injection molded bobbin. Following the mindset at the time of more, bigger, and faster, has to be better.

[Bill M]

Sorry I haven't replied in a more timely manner, but I've been away from the shop for a few days. The original Melody Maker pickup had the same size flatwork as a tele bridge pickup upper flatwork for both top and bottom. The height was the 1/2 inch height of the bar magnet. The flat work was more dense than forbon and was thinner than tele top flat work, it was approx. .030". The purpose of the 2 thin brass U channels was to keep the flatwork together and from popping off. I don't know how successful it could be to cut a slot out of 2 tele top flatworks and just glue it to the bar magnet as the internal height would be pretty close to the original. .030" flatwork and about .030 for the brass thickness vs. .062 tele top flatwork thickness.
When I get back to the shop on Monday I will look for the specs I wrote down on the 1960 MM pickup that I rewound, but if memory serves me correct it had 10k turns and was about 8.8k and it was monsterous sounding.

[big_teee]

Thanks so much Bill for all the good valuable info.
IMO the 10k turns, and the 8.8k alnico bar blade pickup is too hot for my neck P/U needs.
I would lean more in the 7-8k of 43 wire, or maybe 42. and the bobbin could be smaller.
I haven't heard anyone suggest the magnet type used, A2-A6 ?

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
Thank you Bill M, That mirrors my thoughts on winding this pickup exactly. My method of approach to building the core of the pickup is going to be cutting out the top and bottom, slotting it to the size required to fit magnet and two brass flanges, assembly followed by submerging the assembly in matte finish polyurethane. After winding I intend to wrap it in string like a Tele pickup. I know the originals used a plastic cover, however as far as I can tell the cover only served to protect the windings and provided a way to mount the pickup.
The measurements you provided was one of the things that had held me up to this point, as there was no other source where that was available. the number of windings and an accurate ohms reading. Also I didn't want to do a reproduction, I want to make an exact copy as far as the internal workings. There are copy's followed by such gibberish as, gives you the absolute 100% authentic sound with the exception of eliminating that annoying (fill in the blank). The copy's are also wound on bobbins even different than the time saving nylon bobbins that replaced the original flat work.
So once again Thank you very much.

[big_teee]

Hello,
Thank you Bill M, That mirrors my thoughts on winding this pickup exactly. My method of approach to building the core of the pickup is going to be cutting out the top and bottom, slotting it to the size required to fit magnet and two brass flanges, assembly followed by submerging the assembly in matte finish polyurethane. After winding I intend to wrap it in string like a Tele pickup. I know the originals used a plastic cover, however as far as I can tell the cover only served to protect the windings and provided a way to mount the pickup.
The measurements you provided was one of the things that had held me up to this point, as there was no other source where that was available. the number of windings and an accurate ohms reading. Also I didn't want to do a reproduction, I want to make an exact copy as far as the internal workings. There are copy's followed by such gibberish as, gives you the absolute 100% authentic sound with the exception of eliminating that annoying (fill in the blank). The copy's are also wound on bobbins even different than the time saving nylon bobbins that replaced the original flat work.
So once again Thank you very much.

Your plans sound valid.
Only thing I would add is be sure and tape the magnet and brass shims.
Even if you polyurethane.
It is Advisable to Always tape the middle of any pickup that has metal in the middle, and does not use a plastic bobbin.
That prevents the magnet wire from shorting to the magnets and shim.
And, if you want to sound vintage, you need to know what type magnet was used, A2, A3, A4, A5, or A6 ?
GL,
T
**Edit
It looks like the Melody maker pickups used a A5 Bar Magnet.

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
Thank you T, I had planned to do that as there is no use half stepping at this point. One of my concerns that will make the tape necessary
will be the edges of the brass. I have 1/2" masking tape however I am going in search of something thinner. The masking tape thickness could possibly take up space that could that could accommodate a few more winds. I would also like to find some that is narrower, I am sure one of the painting suppliers would have something besides regular masking tape. I would like to be sure everything can be sourced locally. As you can see I live in the PNW. So finding things can become a task sometimes.

[Bill M]

Yes, the original MM pickup was taped around the brass and magnet with black paper tape.

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
Today I got out some thin pieces of brass I had acquired along the way and am measuring it out for the flanges. I am not sure the thickness matters. It seems to be like shim stock. I would imagine it was only used to keep the whole assembly together. I should have a bobbin made by tomorrow. I will dip it and let it sit overnight. Then the fun begins ten thousand chances for mishap.

[Bill M]

Hello,
Today I got out some thin pieces of brass I had acquired along the way and am measuring it out for the flanges. I am not sure the thickness matters. It seems to be like shim stock. I would imagine it was only used to keep the whole assembly together. I should have a bobbin made by tomorrow. I will dip it and let it sit overnight. Then the fun begins ten thousand chances for mishap.

If you are using the brass U channel then there is no need to dip it as the brass u channel holds the upper and lower flatwork together. You just need to insert the bar mag and tape the core and you're ready to wind.

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
Thank you Bill. I am sure you are right however, I would feel better if I used the polyurethane to solidify the whole assembly as I am not a veteran winder at this point.

[big_teee]

How is the Project going?
Hope it turned out good!

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
Thank you for your interest. It is really a clumsy thing to undertake. working with the brass being the hardest. Using the thinnest brass it is hard to get 90 degree angles to work as you know how the ends want to splay out causing separation between the brass and flat work. Replicating a Tele sized bobbin I am also wondering if it is even going to be possible to get 10,000 turns. I am still working with it, no positive results so far , but will keep you informed.

[big_teee]

Don't think you can get 10,000 turns of 44 on a short Tele neck bobbin.
It is too short, and too narrow.
You will need a wider bobbin flange to put 10,000 turns of 42 wire on it.
The pic on google books is much wider than a tele neck bobbin.
http://books.google.com/books?id=PYm...page&q&f=false
If the magnet width in the google picture is .125"?
The Magnet width can be placed on that bobbin flange at least 5 times.
5 X .125 = .625.
So it needs to be at least .625- .650" to be as wide as the original.
probably more like .700".
Just my observations!