Rules of Thumb, Concerning P/Us?

[big_teee]

There are certain rules of thumb, or basic rules that apply to winding.
Got any you want to share?
Here's a couple very basic ones!
Taller bobbins between the flats, are brighter Sounding than shorter bobbins.
Bobbins wound to a larger diameter are darker sounding than smaller diameter bobbins, all things like wire gauge kept equal!
Feel free to discuss the basic things we do!
Thanks,
T

[davos]

Not sure it really counts as a rule of thumb but has helped a few people out before. 43AWG turn count pretty much = DCR. So 10,000 turns makes around a 10K output.

[big_teee]

I've noticed that too on certain bobbins.
Like a 43 ga. humbucker, 2 - 7k bobbins will be ballpark 14k.
Thanks,
T

[big_teee]

Mostly accepted Standards

Things that are mostly accepted.
None of these are chiseled in stone, and there have been variations through the years.
This is more or less a current trend!
1. Humbuckers wound Counter Clockwise (CCW) looking down from the top.
2. Humbuckers, North Magnet Edge on Slug Coil, South edge on Screw coil keeper bar.
3. Humbuckers, Output on Start of Slug coil, Ground on Start of Screw coil, with Finish leads tied together.
4. Humbuckers, 4-wire Most accepted is SeymourDuncan layout, black to Slug Coil Start, White to Slug Finish, Green to Start of Screw coil, and red to finish of Screw coil.
5. Single Coils (SCs) bridge and neck coils Wound CW South up white and black, Middle Coil wound CCW North up Yellow and black.
6. Tele set, Neck pickup wound CW South up white and black wire, Bridge pickup wound CCW North up Yellow and Black hookup wire.
7. All SCs black wire ground to start lead, and white or yellow wire to finish lead.

T

[big_teee]

Rules of Scatter vs. Non Scatter.
Two humbucker bobbins, both wound with 5000 turns.
One scattered heavily, and one with no or very little scatter.
The Coil with scatter will measure more DCR, than the no scatter coil.
The Scattered coil will be larger in diameter, and be darker sounding than the machine wound no scattered coil.
You can use both of these scatter, or no scatter effects to your advantage.
T

[big_teee]

Another rule of thumb!
short bobbins can be more efficient that long bobbins.
You can put as many or more turns of wire on multiple shorter bobbins with less wire, & less DCR, than a long single bobbin.
Fender did that with the Split Pickups, like the P-Bass, and 12 string split pickups.
Countless bass pickups do that with multi-coil pickups.
More wire closer to the magnet, makes a bright efficient pickup.
T
**Do you have any basic rules that you go by, while winding pickups?

[big_teee]

Another rule of thumb about wire?
As time goes on and everytime I buy a new roll of wire, it seems to be smaller per gauge, with higher ohms per foot.
Anyone else noticing this trend.
example, 42 Single used to run on average .0028".
Now it is closer to .0026-.00265".
The last spool of 43 & 44 I bought were also smaller than on spools previous.
Not only does this effect existing pickup formulas, it also makes non-adjustable estimating software give bad data.
T

[copperheadroads]

All Electrisola MinNorm 42 usually run .0026-.00265" at least the last half dozen spools have been in these specs .
I wonder if you have the larger Norm size it's usually printed or written on the spool
NEMA MW1000C
MinNorm .0026"
Norm .0028"
MaxNorm .0030"

[big_teee]

I agree Copper.
I have one roll of red that is around .0025, and another roll that is around .00268.
I dig them both.
The .0025 is great when you want the size of 43, but the muscle of 42.
T

[big_teee]

Here's another one I want to get nailed down where I can find it.
This is a quote from Jason Lollar, off a Mustang bass thread.
When it comes to two coils played together ,whether a double coil pickup or playing two single Coils together?

"Reverse Wound is What Cancels Hum, and Reverse Polarity is what sets the Phase."

[Steve A.]

There are certain rules of thumb, or basic rules that apply to winding.
Got any you want to share?
Here's a couple very basic ones!
Taller bobbins between the flats, are brighter Sounding than shorter bobbins...

Guitarist Jim Weider of The Band designed his Big-T tele neck pickup with fatter and taller pole pieces because he wanted something to match the output of his '52 tele bridge pickup. Unlike most other hotrodded tele neck pickups they are not overwound so they retain the traditional sound but give you a much bigger helping so it is not overpowered by the bridge pickup.



Steve Ahola

[Steve A.]

Here's another one I want to get nailed down where I can find it.
This is a quote from Jason Lollar, off a Mustang bass thread.
When it comes to two coils played together ,whether a double coil pickup or playing two single Coils together?

"Reverse Wound is What Cancels Hum, and Reverse Polarity is what sets the Phase."

My Bible was the 1980 edition of Guitar Electronics by Donald Brosnac which had a chart showing the phasing and humcancelling properties of the different combinations of two strat pickups. The chart mistakenly did not indicate any combinations which were both humcancelling and out-of-phase so it really blew me away when I ran across that combination on my own. (I assume that he corrected that chart in later editions.)

As for remembering which is which I think of dummy coils to cancel hum not dummy magnets...

Steve Ahola

[big_teee]

I too make a beefier tele neck pickup.
I did it for my 3 pickup tele, and the regular neck pickup didn't keep up with a strat middle pickup.
I used larger diameter magnets, and 42awg wire, is around 5.6K.
Equivalent turns wise to a 5.9k strat neck Single coil.
Works great.
T

[Steve A.]

I never cared for dummy coils, they add to much to the circuit. I say that realizing there are a multitude of different ones.

I was just using the phrase "dummy coil" as a mnemonic device but now that you brought it up old school technology told us to use a coil as similar to the sensing coil as possible but without the magnets or screws/slugs. That worked well for me in eliminating the hum but it changed the impedance and inductance creating a thicker tone with some compression.

Enter Chiliachki and his 2004 patent which turned everything around 180 degrees using a wider circumference coil using fewer turns of a thicker gauge coil wire and adding trimmer pots to dial in the effect and tone of the dummy coil... it's a whole new ball game!

A properly designed and installed Chiliachki dummy coil will eliminate at least 80% of the hum and noise without audibly changing the soud and response of a nice single coil pickup.

I too make a beefier tele neck pickup.
I did it for my 3 pickup tele, and the regular neck pickup didn't keep up with a strat middle pickup. I used larger diameter magnets, and 42awg wire.

You might try longer magnets poking through the bottom flatwork, too. The video demos of the Big T neck pickup are amazing. It doesn't just match the tele bridge pickup it trumps it! Well, at least in the older sense of the word...

https://youtu.be/iJYwygdVPcw

Steve Ahola

[big_teee]

I do stick them out the back some, depending on the magnet length.
Length doesn't boost gauss as much as larger diameter. I use A5 X .197" X .688"s
I don't copy other guys pickups, I just make, test, and perfect my own take of the classics.
T
**Here's my strat sounding tele neck pickup layout, I'll leave it on here a little while.
It is very strong and quite loud.
I usually wind at 90%.