Brass base plate?

[DMD]

Hey guys, newbie here.
I've recently started winding pups. Done some research (here, & other places) to help improve the outcome, but sadly, I've yet to wind a neck pup that wasn't muddy/dark.
Using 42awg (elektrisola single build pe) from Remington industries, I've wound 1 pup to a mid 8k (I'm only doing buckers ATM) with an A5 mag,
1 pup to a mid 7k w/A5, & 1 wound to a very low 6.6ish k.
The first 2 (mid 8k, & mid 7k) were mounted on nickel silver base plates, & despite adjusting the height, & poles, are still very dark.
The third, I bought a "kit" from Guitar parts USA, which had a brass base plate.
I figured that the lower wind, mid 6k would be the ticket to a "brighter" neck pup, but no dice. Still mud/dark
I've read that the brass base will tend to a darker pup, so my next move will be to swap the brass for a nickel silver base.
Also worth mentioning, is the fact that I was actually "holding" the wire by hand, to control the tension, & traverse.
I've since put a tension control (clothes pin & felt) on my winder, & have hillbilly engineered an eyelet on a rod between two brackets, to control the traverse by hand, without touching the wire.
I've had pretty decent luck with the bridge position (as it tends to be brighter anyway), not claiming great success, but usable, but I got into the winding game to build a neck pup that wasn't dark/mud, as everything I've tried so far in my guitars (VMLP, & SG standard '10, & 06 respectively), has left me with a bad taste, except the "custom wound" set that cost me too much, the neck pup from the set is 7.22k with an A5 mag, & was a bit tricky to get set up to where I could live with it.
Both guitars are all mahogany, which I've read also tends to be a bit on the dark side.

Bottom line, I'm wondering if anyone has any tips they'd be willing to share, to get me going in the right direction.
I'm not going to fish for hard numbers, turn count, tpl, exact tension, but a general rule kinda thing.

I have some 42 awg heavy build on the way, having read that space between windings as well as a looser wind,leads to cleaner/brighter pups.
Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.

DD

[big_teee]

Welcome DD!
I got started several years ago with the Stewmac Instructions.
STEWMAC.COM - Humbucker Pickup Kit
Nickel, is brighter than brass.
Make sure the A5s are Fully charged all the way.
A 7.2k neck should work great.
Minimum to no scatter.
Medium tension, and equal turns on each bobbin should be a starting place.
https://www.google.com/search?q=humb...tm%3B250%3B251
T

[DMD]

Thanks big_teee,
I'm waiting for the heavy build wire to arrive, then I'll give the Stew/Mac tips a shot.
I've done a couple bridge pups with the single 42 that sounded decent, with offset coils, slug 5200, screw 4800.
Even tried a couple bridge pups with 43 awg single build. One was Real hot at about 17.5k, (just wound em full), the other, I used a rule of thumb that I think I found on this forum "with 43 wire, 6800 to 7200 wraps per coil. I underwound a bit, 6600 per, & wound up in the range of a super distortion.
Sounds fair, but I haven't wax potted any of my pups yet. just trial & error till I figure out what works best for me.
Thanks again for the info.

DD

[LtKojak]

From your descriptions, looks like you're setting your p'ups too close to the strings.

Also, A5 mags gives a peak in the lows and highs; you should try your winds with more balanced mags, like A4, UnOriented Alnico 5 (UOA5) and or even A2.

HTH,

[DMD]

Thanks Lt.
I don't think the distance is the problem, I usually start close, then work my way down, then raise the poles.
I'll be looking into getting some different mags soon.
I have a couple of UOA5, & a rough cast A2 that I can give a shot with. I think I have an A3 around here somewhere too.
I get my mags from addfx, any opinion on the strength, I don't have a gauss meter atm, just getting started.

[big_teee]

Did You get all your questions answered, and did you find your problem?
On the Heavy build wire, it is usually used for Fender type single coils.
On Humbucker type bobbins, the wire usually used is SPN, and PE.
The A2, and A5 magnets are the most common used on humbuckers.
Others can be used, but the most common are A2, and A5.
GL,
T

[DMD]

I'm picking up tips here & there. I think my biggest problem is my lack of experience.
I believe a lot of my issues are due to my "winding pattern".
When I wound the first few, I had it in my head that more scatter would make it brighter.
That, along with the fact that I wasn't documenting what I was doing at the time.
I'm still firmly in the trial & error phase.

I get that the heavy build was used mostly for SC type pickups, but I've also read about the "space" created, & how it tends to brighten the tone.
This is the direction I went with my latest effort. As you suggested, "minimum to no scatter, equal turns"
Using the HB wire, I've turned 2 bobbins to 5000, with no scatter (as much as possible without an auto traverse).
I've also aquired 2 uoa5, & 2 a4 mags to play with, as per Lt. Kojak's suggestions.
I'll have time later to get it all put together, then give it a day or two to let the magnetic feild settle, & I'll see what she sounds like.

Thanks for checkin back.

[big_teee]

The way to understand scatter vs non scatter?
A small diameter coil will be brighter than a fatter coil.
So with two coils same turns?
The scatter coil with less turns per layer will be larger in diameter, and darker sounding than the smaller coil with more turns per layer.
Scatter can be a good thing with some Fender coils, like a Strat Bridge pickup.
A Strat bridge pickup is inherently bright.
So scatter and more turns will fatten up the tone of a strat bridge pickup.
As far as letting magnets settle, I wouldn't let that hold me up.
My rule of thumb on humbucker 42awg turns is?
Neck pickup, 5000 or less. (4500-5000)
Bridge pickup 5000 or more. (5000- full coil)
The Coil estimator also shows a lot about coils and size of the coils.
http://www.salvarsan.org/pickups/Coil_Estimator07.html
GL,
T
**Edit
Post 5 of the get started thread lists things that effect tone.
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t30228/

[DMD]

Hey big_teee, I wound up, & got that 42 heavy build bucker together & installed.
5000 turns per, with an A4 magnet. A bit brighter than my previous attempts, (probably should have stopped at 4500)
It's a bit of a trick keeping even tpl without a machine.
I'd estimate (by watching the counter as I'm winding) that I'm in the 80 to 100 tpl on this one, but can't be exact.
As per your advice, I stayed in straight lines, little to no scatter.
Still got a lot to learn, & more equipment to get. It's gonna be a slow process, cause budget doesn't allow for any fancy cnc stuff.
Gonna work on an auto traverse (small motor, heart shaped cog driving a spring assisted rod) I'll keep you posted.
It'll take a minute, holidays are hectic.

Thanks again for the pointers.

DD